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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#253326: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:37:10 AM

Wales has free prescriptions, too. In fact, Wales went to free prescriptions first (2007), followed by Northern Ireland in 2010 and then Scotland in 2011.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253327: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:38:49 AM

[up][up] TYT is garbage.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253328: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:39:52 AM

Quick questions: what’s the general view on Fidel Castro these days? I know his reputation as a dictator can be exaggerated in conservative circles, but I ask because I was confused why there was an abundance of rather gentle farewell remarks from Democrats and left-leaning people. In particular, I felt confused when I saw someone on Twitter that proclaims themselves to be a radical leftist rage tweeting over Mc Cain’s death, angry that he got an outpouring of grief and whitewashing while Castro didn’t.

He was not Satan like the right-wingers paint him as but there is a lot to criticize him about, like his undemocratic positions and his raging homophobia.

Still I don't think anyone here is going to whitewash him.

Other question: how do people see The Young Turks around here and Jimmy Dore in particular? They proclaim to be left leaning but Dore being cuddly over Trump and conspiracy theorists, along with the group’s real love of Jill Stein and whitewashing Bernie Sanders makes me think otherwise. Also brought up because I saw the same Castro worship from them and rage over Mc Cain’s tributes.

Since the thread often doesn't like Sanders I think it's safe to assume that we probably dislike them.

I certainly do, they're the perfect encapsulation of the worst of the populist left. As you say their whitewashing of Saint Bernie and tolerance for Jill Stein are intolerable.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#253329: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:42:45 AM

Other question: how do people see The Young Turks around here and Jimmy Dore in particular? They proclaim to be left leaning but Dore being cuddly over Trump and conspiracy theorists, along with the group’s real love of Jill Stein and whitewashing Bernie Sanders makes me think otherwise. Also brought up because I saw the same Castro worship from them and rage over Mc Cain’s tributes.
I can't answer for Castro, other than to note that accusations of whitewashing occurred just a couple pages ago, if not for the same reasons you're describing.

My impression of the Young Turks on this thread is they're the Sanders style leftists who don't grasp the difference between what should be done and what can by done, what has been referred to on here as things like the Unicorn Brigade and Messianic Left, for their tendency to put all their hopes in the leftist messiah. Further, any accurate message the Young Turks might have is tainted by naming themselves after the perpetrators of a genocide they also go on to say ever happened, or at least can't be described as such.

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 28th 2018 at 10:43:45 AM

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#253330: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:04:42 AM

[up]Ew, that detail about their name is gross and makes their rage of Presidents for committing war crimes all the more hypocritical. Oddly enough, I stumbled upon all this because the self proclaimed radical leftist I mentioned is followed by and occasionally retweeted by Jonathan Mc Intosh, who I follow for the Pop Culture Detective. Who himself is a big Bernie Sanders supporter and declared support for Jill Stein in the election because of his dislike of Clinton. That being said, the radical leftist was rather peeved to put it lightly over Sanders being one of the ones to give a tribute to Mc Cain, which led to a rather hilarious meltdown from them.

Power of Thor!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253331: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:08:51 AM

Exactly, it's despicable and hilariously hypocritical that they would call themselves "Young Turks".

They're trash.

Ironically I respect Sanders way more then them, for all his many flaws at-least he hasn't played apologist for genocide.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 1:09:00 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#253332: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:13:11 AM

Honestly, the Jill 420 YOLO row row fight da powah Stein votes and outright apathy because Bernie Sanders didn't win the nomination, certainly costed Hillary the election.

How tight where the win margins for Trump in plenty of purple states? 2 to 4 percent? And what as the percentage of idiots who voted for Stein in most purple states again? Around what 2 to 4 percent too?

[up]Cenk begrudgingly admitted the Armenian Holocaust happened, only because he was pressured to do so, so that is another layer of douchebaggotry the TYT have.

Edited by AngelusNox on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:18:24 PM

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253333: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:14:52 AM

[up]Actually I believe Democrats not voting cost Hillary the election, which is also stupid but a different kind of stupid from voting for Jill Stein.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#253334: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:17:02 AM

[up][up][up] While I agree with you on Sanders, ironically said radical leftist in their rage tweeting accused Sanders of doing so by tweeting a tribute to McCain. Although, then again, given they attacked pretty much everyone who did so, they just hated McCain with a passion (Albeit not entirely unfounded). They did cross the line by tweeting about a dozen tweets in celebration of his death though, which even made myself uncomfortable despite knowing what McCain was like, as I have relatives who live in Arizona who can testify about his moral failings.

Edited by CommanderAce on Aug 28th 2018 at 11:17:38 AM

Power of Thor!
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#253335: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:25:06 AM

[up][up]The margins Hillary lost by in 3 swing states, with enough electoral votes to win the election, were smaller than the total votes for Stein in those states. Jill Stein put Donald Trump in the White House, full stop.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253336: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:27:00 AM

[up][up]Sure, if you've seen my posts on the issue I view Mc Cain as a bad man who should not be whitewashed by anyone. I just view it as deeply ironic that people would complain about whitewashing while supporting people called the Young turks.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#253337: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:30:13 AM

Because she literally says the opposite, that rules to restrain capitalism are good and that the Consumer Protection Bureau is something she's proud of.
... I meant to type "roll back". Mea culpa.

We've had several discussions back through the thread about the garbage peddled by TYT, do we need a rehash?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#253338: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:30:51 AM

[up][up][up]Im not sure if that is true given that it’s pretty likely that without the Green Party many those voters would have sit out the election rather then vote Democrat.

I’d carefully about scapegoating anyone in particular over Hillary Clinton’s loss.

Edited by Mio on Aug 28th 2018 at 1:30:59 PM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#253339: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:31:25 AM

Blaming Jill Stein voters feels like a mischaracterization to me. You can't just do subtraction like that; it's not Jill Stein getting 0 zero votes was ever in the cards. And when you have an event as complicated as a national election that was as close to tied as 2016 was, well, you can point to any conceivable factor that worked in Trump's favour, say 'this is what won the election for him' and you won't technically be wrong, but will be guilty of oversimplifying to the point where it's misleading.

Edited by Gilphon on Aug 28th 2018 at 1:33:46 PM

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#253340: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:36:58 AM

Like the GOP has proudly claimed that their voter suppression tactics did it in two of the narrow states (Wisconsin and Michigan).

"Yup. That tasted purple."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#253341: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:42:37 AM

I sincerely don't get people getting as angry about tributes to McCain as have been described.

People here have claimed to not understand it, but nevertheless Never Speak Ill of the Dead is a Thing, and a big enough Thing that to not expect it following the death of a prominent politician is folly, whatever you felt about him personally. Especially in the days immediately following the death itself.

Hell, I expect we'd get some of that even if Trump dropped dead while in office.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#253342: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:44:59 AM

[up][up][up]Stein getting 0 votes was obviously never going to happen, but it would have only taken about 20% of Stein voters to give Hillary Michigan, around 95% in Pennsylvania, and around 70% in Wisconsin. Not likely, but Bernie continuing to demonize Hillary while shilling for Stein during the general was most unwelcome.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Aug 28th 2018 at 1:44:40 PM

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#253343: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:47:55 AM

Trump accuses Google of hiding fair media coverage of him.

Yeah, Douche Don. There would be fair coverage of you if you didn't fuck things up all the time.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253344: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:57:47 AM

Blaming Jill Stein voters feels like a mischaracterization to me. You can't just do subtraction like that; it's not Jill Stein getting 0 zero votes was ever in the cards. And when you have an event as complicated as a national election that was as close to tied as 2016 was, well, you can point to any conceivable factor that worked in Trump's favour, say 'this is what won the election for him' and you won't technically be wrong, but will be guilty of oversimplifying to the point where it's misleading.

This.

Obviously Jill Stein has responsibility for Trump in that she did harmful things like say that Clinton was more dangerous than Trump, not even focusing on her Wifi inanity.

But assuming that people who would vote for Stein had the chance of voting for Clinton is I think questionable, by definition they're the kind of people who aren't going to vote for Democrats period because of their ideological position. Thus it makes far more sense to focus on the Democrats who didn't vote when talking about who cost her the election, they're the people who have actual reason to vote for a Democrat.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#253345: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:04:30 AM

Stein getting 0 votes was obviously never going to happen, but it would have only taken about 20% of Stein voters to give Hillary Michigan, around 95% in Pennsylvania, and around 70% in Wisconsin.
I'm still wondering why Hillary didn't push through legal chances in some of those states where the vote difference was under 2%. This might have revealed the Russian connection to Stein back then, when something might have been done about it before Trump was in office to cover for them.

Because I found this explanation of socio-political terms amusing and some of them fit the conversation, I'll share a few:

Capitalism: Your mum washes your clothes. You pay her a dollar. She complains. You call the cops and claim she's rioting.

Socialism: Your mum does the washing. You do the cooking. Everyone is theoretically happy.

Libertarianism: Your mum does the washing. You believe you did it.

Men's rights activism: Your mum does the washing. You call her a whore.

Americanism: Your mum does the washing. It's in the constitution. END OF DISCUSSION.

Sexism: Of course your mum does the washing. Duh.

Homophobia: You think it's unnatural that your mum doesn't do the washing. Against God's will, even.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#253346: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:08:27 AM

[up][up][up]I'm pretty sure I saw an article not too long ago about how activists were deliberately toying with Google's search mechanisms to make typing "Trump" automatically associated with negative things. Which would make his outrage very indicative of his situation: He thinks (or is willing to spin) his opposition as a coordinated top-down conspiracy, when it's actually a lot of people on the bottom that just really don't like him.

Edited by Eschaton on Aug 28th 2018 at 11:08:02 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253347: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:16:51 AM

Castro was a communist dictator who ruled his country without the people's consent and did a lot of unforgivably evil things, including mass murder of innocent people. There's no need to treat him as anything other than a scumbag even though he was capable enough to avoid the country exploding—a dictator lasting until his death bed is not to be lauded but deplored.

My eulogy for Castro is, "The methods to remove you were probably worse than the methods you used—but that's not an endorsement."

But assuming that people who would vote for Stein had the chance of voting for Clinton is I think questionable, by definition they're the kind of people who aren't going to vote for Democrats period because of their ideological position. Thus it makes far more sense to focus on the Democrats who didn't vote when talking about who cost her the election, they're the people who have actual reason to vote for a Democrat.

I know plenty of Democrats who voted for Jill Stein as a protest vote.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 28th 2018 at 11:18:00 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253348: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:36:26 AM

I know plenty of Democrats who voted for Jill Stein as a protest vote.

Anecdotal evidence is not convincing when we're talking about national trends.

It's true that Democrats are people that can reliably be assumed to have a willingness to vote for Democratic politicians while the same cannot be said for Green voters or those who vote for Jill Stein.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:38:55 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#253349: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:36:57 AM

Defense Distributed has violated a federal court order and is selling the 3D-printed guns instead of putting them on for free. They've said they've already gotten 400 orders (I'm betting at least one of them is a violent, dangerous person).

Congratulations, gun control movement. By not making this an issue in 2014 midterms and 2016, every country in the world will now be threatened by untraceable firearms for the next 30-40 years, with no effective regulation possible without PATRIOT Act-style surveillance, and millennials in America will have no other option but to leave the country just to avoid getting shot.

And that's not even touching the possibility of Brett Kavanaugh being the decisive vote in striking down assault weapons bans forever.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:37:26 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253350: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:37:56 AM

I'm saying that's just wrong.

Green party and other left leaning independent party voters are very likely to vote Democrat—as we saw with Obama. Hillary did not attract all of them, though she attracted most.

There's a weird defensiveness that people who didn't vote for Hillary could never have voted for Hillary.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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