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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#253051: Aug 25th 2018 at 5:42:17 PM

If memory serves in this instance the governor appoints a replacement of the same party, that replacement serves until 2019 when the senate seat will be up in a special election.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#253052: Aug 25th 2018 at 5:45:08 PM

How terrible. Tortured at the peak of your life, and then died torturously.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#253053: Aug 25th 2018 at 5:50:42 PM

I'm torn,I know cancer so i should be sympathetic,but he took away medicare for millions of people,people who probably died because he denied them care

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253054: Aug 25th 2018 at 5:53:25 PM

It's simple, hold your sympathy for his family while keeping in mind that the man himself spent the legislative portion of his life poorly.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 25th 2018 at 8:55:22 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253055: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:10:01 PM

Mc Cain prevented the appeal of Obama Care by one vote.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#253056: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:16:44 PM

One good deed does not erase the rest of his 'false maverick' reputation.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#253057: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:21:16 PM

It's simple, hold your sympathy for his family while keeping in mind that the man himself spent the legislative portion of his life poorly.
That is contingent on whether or not his family kept expressing support for him despite or even because of his more immoral actions as a politician. If they do... then no', they don't deserve sympathy.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#253058: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:22:13 PM

I still recall a Cracked article detailing the Screwjob they did on him - he had no reason to be as unfathomably loyal to the Republican Party line as he was. Basically, Mc Cain had an adoptive Bangladeshi daughter named Brigid. The Republicans in power used some really disgusting racist attacks on her to get at her dad purely to keep him out of I think it was the Presidential seat so as to give their puppet Bush the seat.

[up] That is remarkably cold-hearted...I'm kind of impressed.

Edited by NickTheSwing on Aug 25th 2018 at 6:25:02 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253059: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:23:54 PM

I feel like there's a difference between "general" sympathy, and "specific" sympathy. I feel general sympathy in it's sad that a person was dying of cancer, and one known for being very voracious at that. That doesn't mean I have to agree with Mc Cain's politic stances or decisions, or can't feel relief that he won't be making them anymore.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#253060: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:28:18 PM

I find some measure of sympathy for him as a person, but his legislative record seems to me to be lacking. I recognize his bravery as well.

He was a fellow born in Panama, so I must at least find something to like in the guy.

Anyhow, goodbye John.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253061: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:30:30 PM

That is contingent on whether or not his family kept expressing support for him despite or even because of his more immoral actions as a politician. If they do... then no', they don't deserve sympathy.

Everyone deserves sympathy, if only for "how the hell did someone turn out like this?"

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253062: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:40:24 PM

Personally, the big thing to note is that a person's policies do not necessarily define personal character. A person can have bad legislation or even pretty bad political beliefs and not necessarily be evil. Mc Cain himself, whatever you think of his personal views, was a guy who suffered a lot for his country and I do believe his actions in politics were largely motivated by a genuine desire to help his country.

And keep in mind is that a lot of these sorts of policies are actually fairly popular. Not a majority, per se, but saying that a politician deserves to die of cancer for opposing a policy that a very good chunk of the nation opposes is a bit...bizarre. Does every person who voted against Obama in '08 deserve to die of cancer?

Leviticus 19:34
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#253063: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:42:30 PM

That is remarkably cold-hearted...I'm kind of impressed.
Comes with the territory. I am being quite honestly when I say that I lost all love for my biological father over him revealing that he's an abusive, hypocritical, narcisstic, and psychopathic son of a bitch, and replaced it with super-acidic hatred that would've made me more than willing to dance over his grave the day he days in full view of his brothers and other close relatives if I actually knew how to dance without embarrassing myself. Every time I think about it, I subconsciously wish the most painful and humiliating death possible upon him.

When you can hate your own father that much, it becomes trivial to deny anyone else the right to your sympathy.

... It may also have to do with having spent my childhood and adolescence absolutely hating the guts of the Prime Ministers of Israel that came after Yitzhak Rabin for all the atrocities they've presided upon and enabled.

Everyone deserves sympathy, if only for "how the hell did someone turn out like this?"
That's not sympathy, that's bewilderment, which can be motivated by outrage (moral or otherwise).

A person can have bad legislation or even pretty bad political beliefs and not necessarily be evil. Mc Cain himself, whatever you think of his personal views, was a guy who suffered a lot for his country and I do believe his actions in politics were largely motivated by a genuine desire to help his country.
Him staunchly marching in lockstep with the GOP over the past decade regardless of how horrible their ideology became says otherwise.

And keep in mind is that a lot of these sorts of policies are actually fairly popular. Not a majority, per se, but saying that a politician deserves to die of cancer for opposing a policy that a very good chunk of the nation opposes is a bit...bizarre.
You really think it's just about him opposing Obamacare and helping undermine it after Obama left? Really???

Does every person who voted against Obama in '08 deserve to die of cancer?
I wouldn't feel sorry the ones who voted against him out of deplorable motives (e.g. racism) if they died of cancer. That much, I can tell you.

Edited by MarqFJA on Aug 25th 2018 at 4:48:41 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253064: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:43:27 PM

This feels similar to Antonin Scalia’s passing. I just cannot forget that Mc Cain spent his career doing a lot of damage by remaining loyal to people who did not deserve such loyalty.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253065: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:49:44 PM

and I do believe his actions in politics were largely motivated by a genuine desire to help his country.

Y’know, a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. Heck, I may have voted for Mc Cain in 2008... I honestly don’t remember. I was in the midst of shifting from conservative to liberal (and eventually progressive) and I honestly don’t remember if I voted for Mc Cain as a last gasp of teenage conservatism or if I begrudgingly voted for Obama.

Either way, I don’t think John Mc Cain was a man of honor or integrity. This 2008 Rolling Stone profile is why.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#253066: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:50:00 PM

[up][up] This too, essentially.

Edited by MarqFJA on Aug 25th 2018 at 4:49:36 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253067: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:52:10 PM

I'm not gonna tell anyone how to feel, but I can't help but think going on about the moral implications of sympathy or grave-dancing don't really fit this thread.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253068: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:55:27 PM

That's not sympathy, that's bewilderment, which can be motivated by outrage (moral or otherwise).

I feel like it can be sympathy too. Or pity.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#253069: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:56:48 PM

Posting this article about how McCain neutered his own anti-torture bill to keep it from affecting the CIA, then voted against a Democrat version that would have penalized the CIA and called for Bush to veto it, which he did.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17778146/john-mccain-dies-torture-legacy-waterboarding-enhanced-interrogation-cia

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 25th 2018 at 6:56:33 AM

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#253070: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:57:17 PM

[up][up][up] They do when they directly pertaining to a post that was made in response to an on-topic piece of news.

[up] See? More than just Obamacare. You all have to realize that some people just deserve no sympathy whatsoever.

Have any of you felt sympathy for Osama Bin Laden when he was assassinated?

Edited by MarqFJA on Aug 25th 2018 at 5:01:25 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#253071: Aug 25th 2018 at 6:59:56 PM

I’d remind people that Marq is coming at this from the perspective of someone in the Middle East, a region that has suffered greatly under the hawkism pushed by Mc Cain.

Mc Cain strongly represented the foreign policy ideas that were seen under Bush (with the exception of torture), as such people who see such foreign policy as monstrous are likly to see Mc Cain the same way.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253072: Aug 25th 2018 at 7:02:45 PM

Have any of you felt sympathy for Osama Bin Laden when he was assassinated?

Yes.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#253073: Aug 25th 2018 at 7:06:35 PM

A shame it happened so immediately after stopping treatment. That can't have been a pleasant way to spend the end of your life.

It isn't.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 26th 2018 at 5:37:43 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253074: Aug 25th 2018 at 7:07:14 PM

See? More than just Obamacare. You all have to realize that some people just deserve no sympathy whatsoever.

And things like that are why I say I'm not going to tell people how to feel. You probably should do the same.

Really, it's not even about deserving anything. Some people can't just go "I don't care."

Edited by LSBK on Aug 25th 2018 at 9:07:20 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#253075: Aug 25th 2018 at 7:10:28 PM

Here's Trump's tweet regarding McCain's death - My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John Mc Cain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!

And conversely, here's Obama's

John Mc Cain and I were members of different generations, came from completely different backgrounds, and competed at the highest level of politics. But we shared, for all our differences, a fidelity to something higher-the ideals for which generations of Americans and immigrants alike have fought, marched, and sacrificed. We saw our political battles, even, as a privilege, something noble, an opportunity to serve as stewards of those high ideals at home, and to advance them around the world. We saw this country as a place where anything is possible - and citizenship as our patriotic obligation to ensure it forever remains that way.

Few of us have been tested the way John once was, or required to show the kind of courage that he did. But all of us can aspire to the courage to put the greater good above our own. At John's best, he showed us what that means. And for that, we are all in his debt. Michelle and I send our heartfelt condolences to Cindy and their family.

Edited by ironballs16 on Aug 25th 2018 at 7:14:10 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

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