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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252601: Aug 19th 2018 at 9:03:50 PM

They're probably thinking that since Trump won even though a bunch of polls gave him low odds that this means polls are worthless.

Which belies utter ignorance about how polls work.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#252602: Aug 19th 2018 at 9:18:56 PM

Trump speechwriter fired due to association with White Nationalists after refusing to resign

A White House speechwriter for President Trump was terminated last week after revelations that he had spoken at a conference attended by well-known white nationalists, according to three people familiar with the decision who were not authorized to speak publicly.

Darren Beattie, who was a visiting instructor at Duke University before he joined the White House speechwriting team, was fired Friday after a media inquiry about his appearance at the 2016 H.L. Mencken Club conference, where Beattie spoke on a panel alongside Peter Brimelow.

Brimelow, founder of the anti-immigrant website Vdare.com, is a “white nationalist” and “regularly publishes works by white supremacists, anti-Semites, and others on the radical right,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an advocacy group that tracks extremists.

Earlier this year, Brimelow described himself as a believer in “racial nationalism” who sees the future of the United States “precipitating out on racial lines.”

CNN’s K File, an investigative unit, published a report Sunday on Beattie and his appearance at the Mencken event, which has been attended in the past by white nationalist Richard Spencer. Spencer is a prominent figure in the “alt-right,” a movement whose adherents are known for espousing racist, sexist and anti-Semitic points of view.

Once White House officials were informed about CNN’s pending report, Beattie reportedly was confronted and urged to step down immediately. But he apparently refused to resign, arguing that he was not racist and that he had made uncontroversial academic points at the Mencken gathering. When it became clear that Beattie would not resign, the people familiar with the matter said, the White House terminated him.

Beattie worked for Vince Haley, the head of speechwriting at the White House and at times worked on speech projects for Stephen Miller, Trump’s top policy adviser and speechwriter, the people added.

It was not clear Sunday whether President Trump or Chief of Staff John F. Kelly were personally involved in Beattie’s departure.

“Mr. Beattie no longer works at the White House,” White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said in a statement to The Washington Post. “We don’t comment on personnel matters.”

Beattie, when reached by phone Sunday, declined to elaborate on his dismissal but provided The Post with a statement.

“In 2016 I attended the Mencken conference in question and delivered a stand-alone, academic talk titled ‘The Intelligentsia and the Right.’ I said nothing objectionable and stand by my remarks completely,” Beattie said in the statement. “It was the honor of my life to serve in the Trump Administration. I love President Trump, who is a fearless American hero, and continue to support him one hundred percent. I have no further comment.”

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#252604: Aug 19th 2018 at 9:28:03 PM

It's pretty sad that it's a pleasant surprise (or at least doesn't go without saying) they actually fired the guy.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252605: Aug 19th 2018 at 9:39:21 PM

A lot of the Trump administration have started to run the government Imperial Eunuch style.

I.e. without bothering to consult Trump.

This one might actually have a shred of decency or desire to appeal to other than the KKK.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#252606: Aug 19th 2018 at 9:42:35 PM

Wait, Trump has speech writers?

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#252607: Aug 19th 2018 at 10:09:18 PM

"The best people."

You forgot the part where this somehow means that liberals are the real racists, because it as Republicans who freed the slaves and such. (That walking waste of space Dinesh D'Souza, for example, recently tried to argue that Richard Spencer is a "progressive Democrat" despite Spencer being a contributor to conservative causes for the last dozen years, shouting "Hail Victory, Hail Trump!" after the 2016 election, [by the way, if you've ever wondered what Sieg Heil translates to in English, reread that quote from Spencer and you can probably guess] or, y'know, the fact that he was part of Unite the Right.)

Wait, Trump has speech writers?

Astonishingly enough yes, although in all seriousness he frequently either tosses the speeches out entirely or starts improvising in the middle of a pre-written speech.

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 19th 2018 at 1:09:08 PM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#252608: Aug 19th 2018 at 10:21:41 PM

Whenever Trump looks like he's being forced to read something at gunpoint after vomiting up some word salad that is offensive even by Republican standards, you can thank his speechwriters.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#252609: Aug 20th 2018 at 12:13:25 AM

On the Pence question an impeachment of Trump would likely cripple Pence politically, becuse he’d be faced with the Ford dilemma.

Pardon Trump and turn a nation that supported impeachment against him, burning all remaining political power and likly scupering his chance at winning in 2020.

Or.

Don’t pardon Trump, letting Trump go to jail and enraging his base, watch as Trump’s base leave the Republican Party in droves and risk Trump throwing mud from his jail cell, possibly even releasing anything he has on Pence.

Oh and as for the idea that Pence doesn’t have power, where do people think all the religious liberties stuff is coming from? Pence seems to have a quiet and effective V Ps office that are out of the spotlight and are doing plenty of horrible things as is, with no media attention on them.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252610: Aug 20th 2018 at 12:39:32 AM

This is one of the reasons I've changed my mind about whether Pence would be worse. I used to think so, but then I realized that he's already in a position of power with less accountability and attention. He's already dangerous.

That said, the ideal situation would be that if Trump gets impeached, Pence ends up going down too. I don't want Pence to be POTUS. He's a horrible human being who is in some ways worse than Trump and he already has a record of awfulness and incompetence when it comes to governing.

Edited by M84 on Aug 21st 2018 at 3:40:31 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#252611: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:19:32 AM

I know it’s barely news at this point, because it’s obvious to anyone who hasn’t been blinded by trumpism, but now Giuliani is saying that the infamous trump tower meeting was about getting dirt on Hillary Clinton, which even if they didn’t actually end up getting anything, is still illegal.

What’s more interesting, (but still fairly obvious, because they are just so bad at this), is the picture you get when you step back and connect the dots. Originally the meeting was said to be about “adoptions of Russian Children.” In that context, that refers to repealing the Magnitsky Act, as The Kremlin barred the adoption of Russian Children by US families. So, I think it’s pretty safe to say, that that were dangling Clinton Dirt, in exchange for Sanctions relief.

Edited by megaeliz on Aug 20th 2018 at 4:35:01 AM

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#252612: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:35:56 PM

WaPost's Paul Waldman makes a disturbing prediction about the months leading up to the midterms.

Spoiler alert: he doesn't mention the possibility of the President manufacturing an international crisis to justify a war. That's exactly what President Bush did, and it paid off handsomely for Republicans in 2002 because Americans' racist instincts took over the voting booth that year, and for the next several years afterward.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 20th 2018 at 4:35:43 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252613: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:38:15 PM

For those unaware you can view it without a subscription via incognito mode.

I will provide more reactions once I actually read it.

Ok I just read it, essentially the article is just saying that as things pile up and the Democrats possibly take control of at-least the House Trump will be put under greater and greater stress which could be worrying for the obvious reasons.

Personally I say good, a stressed Trump is a Trump who is going to act stupid (or rather stupider then he is normally) and thus further hurt his position and the position of the Republican Party as a whole. I don't want him to hurt anyone but that ship has sailed and it's entirely on the heads of the Republicans and Trump himself.

(Also I really hope no-one here uses the article as an excuse to freak out or behave hysterically)

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 20th 2018 at 4:41:41 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#252614: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:46:39 PM

Also, I think any comparison to Bush is asymmetric at best. Bush, for all his many faults, had genuine charm and in 2002, he had tremendous popularity and public good will — which he and his administration subsequently abused. It's hard to imagine, given that breach, but there was a time when Bush's standing was nigh unimpeachable (heh). Not so with Trump, who is an object of revulsion, hatred, fear, and distrust from Day One, and is so singularly despised by a large segment of the population, that it's unlikely he'll be able to manufacture anything without being immediately seen as suspect.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252615: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:49:48 PM

[up]Exactly.

Not to mention that Bush had a very real casus-belli, 9/11 was a massively traumatic and important event that made Afghanistan legitimately justified and Iraq believable.

I see no reason to believe that Trump just deciding to declare war in a fit of spite would have anything even slightly comparable in quality.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 20th 2018 at 4:52:04 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#252616: Aug 20th 2018 at 1:59:22 PM

Iraq was suspect from the start. It's not that nobody say the war was a stupid idea or based on suspicious allegations — there were. They all got shouted down by the war fever. Like, I remember my seventh grade history teacher having us debate whether the war was justified (I was like the main guy arguing anti) and then when it looked like there was a stalemate — we were thirteen, so eventually we would run out of knowledge to use — he just straight up started shouting patriotic slogans about bringing freedom to the Iraqis, overthrowing Saddam, and getting the terrorists, and those who really thought the war was a bad idea ought to shut up and support the President.

This was in Massachusetts, in 2003. It was that kind of time, and wherever you turned, there was someone suspicious that you weren't wholly patriotic. A lot has to change for our society in 2018 to be willing to offer that kind of support to Trump. There's simply no comparison.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252617: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:02:38 PM

The thing about Iraq is that you can make a good testimony even today that invading it was not an immoral action. Not a GREAT ONE and one I have come around on. It was the massive mishandling of it from it, lies, and the simple fact that America for all of its military power could not handle a war on two fronts without serious stresses.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#252618: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:05:38 PM

War was over pretty much immediately. The occupation and rebuilding efforts were what gave us trouble.

You can't solve that with raw military might. You solve that through generations of investment and delicate diplomacy and nationbuilding.

And nobody has the patience for that.

Oh really when?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252619: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:09:23 PM

General Patton gave an argument employing Nazis in the occupation was a good idea because idle hands were the Devil's workshop.

It's a disturbing idea that might have been a simple but effective way of avoiding ISIS being created.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#252620: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:14:05 PM

[up] Sadly I think the problems run much deeper in that region of the world. It’s not just unemployment, it’s generational unrest. For a lot of these guys, their fathers and great grandfathers were all in militias or armies fighting someone or other and that’s all they know how to do. They were militiamen, then national army soldiers, then Islamic radicals. When we give them jobs, they come back at night with rifles. And so on.

It’s a region that’s been so utterly destroyed that piecing it back together is just going to take decades.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 20th 2018 at 2:22:39 AM

They should have sent a poet.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#252621: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:18:35 PM

[up][up] One mistake the US made in Iraq that it didn't make in Germany was firing everyone who was a Ba'ath party member.

De-Nazification was a multi-tiered process - you had the main perpetrators, then you had their followers, you had the fellow travelers, the people who simply joined the party because to you weren't allowed to work in certain jobs without party membership....

In Iraq they didn't apply the lesson they learned in Germany - and what they got was a lot of angry and weapons-profcient people with no job. No guessing on where these guys ended up.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 20th 2018 at 11:18:23 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252622: Aug 20th 2018 at 2:30:53 PM

Iraq was suspect from the start. It's not that nobody say the war was a stupid idea or based on suspicious allegations — there were. They all got shouted down by the war fever. Like, I remember my seventh grade history teacher having us debate whether the war was justified (I was like the main guy arguing anti) and then when it looked like there was a stalemate — we were thirteen, so eventually we would run out of knowledge to use — he just straight up started shouting patriotic slogans about bringing freedom to the Iraqis, overthrowing Saddam, and getting the terrorists, and those who really thought the war was a bad idea ought to shut up and support the President.

This was in Massachusetts, in 2003. It was that kind of time, and wherever you turned, there was someone suspicious that you weren't wholly patriotic. A lot has to change for our society in 2018 to be willing to offer that kind of support to Trump. There's simply no comparison.

Sure, my point is not that everyone supported it. But the fact that the patriotic fervor was very high is evidence that enough people supported it for it to accurately be called believable.

The thing about Iraq is that you can make a good testimony even today that invading it was not an immoral action. Not a GREAT ONE and one I have come around on. It was the massive mishandling of it from it, lies, and the simple fact that America for all of its military power could not handle a war on two fronts without serious stresses.

As a Consequentialist I would say that the fact it failed means that it was immoral, some alternate reality where Bush somehow managed to stabilize the situation is where it would actually be moral.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 20th 2018 at 5:33:19 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#252623: Aug 20th 2018 at 3:14:21 PM

AP sources: Prosecutors preparing charges against Cohen [1]

NEW YORK (AP) — Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump's former personal lawyer, could be charged before the end of the month with bank fraud in his dealings with the taxi industry and with committing other financial crimes, two people familiar with the federal probe said Monday.

The people confirmed reports that federal prosecutors in Manhattan were considering charging Cohen after months of speculation over a case that has been a distraction for the White House with the midterm elections approaching.

The New York Times reported Sunday, based on anonymous sources, that prosecutors have been focusing on more than $20 million in loans obtained by taxi businesses that Cohen and his family own.

As part of the investigation, prosecutors have subpoenaed records from Sterling National Bank, one of the institutions that loaned Cohen money with his ownership in taxi cabs as collateral, one of the people said. The material was sought because it's suspected Cohen falsified some of the paperwork, the person said.

The people, who weren't authorized to discuss the case and spoke on Monday on condition of anonymity, refused to answer questions about speculation that Cohen still might strike a plea deal with prosecutors requiring his cooperation.

Absent a quick resolution, it's believed that prosecutors would put off a decision on how to go forward with the case until after the election in compliance with an informal Justice Department policy of avoiding bringing prosecutions that could be seen as political and influence voters.

Both the U.S. attorney's office and an attorney for Cohen, Lanny Davis, declined to comment Monday. A spokesman for Sterling National Bank declined to comment.

AlityrosThePhilosopher from Over There Since: Jan, 2018
#252624: Aug 20th 2018 at 3:23:14 PM

[up]×7 Charles Phipps, you wrote:

It was the massive mishandling of it [the invasion of Iraq] from it, lies, and the simple fact that America for all of its military power could not handle a war on two fronts without serious stresses.
Well, not with a solely volunteer army that is. There seems to be an uncanny relation between conscription and the plummeting acceptance of any war not directly linked to, you know, defence. And you don’t get to win real wars with a volunteer army in this day and age (and even conscription is no guarantee for victory), not even when you’re a superpower.
Funny all those carrier officers couldn’t let that sink in. Makes one wonder about the state of military higher learning in those glorious academies they have there…

Just as my freedom ends where yours begins my tolerance of you ends where your intolerance toward me begins. As told by an old friend
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#252625: Aug 20th 2018 at 3:37:21 PM

[up] It’s actually somewhat the opposite. Having an all-volunteer force has done wonders for the effectiveness of our military. Too many conscripts is a serious drain on any fighting force.

It was less an issue of spreading ourselves thin, though that did play a part, and more the fact that our military wasn’t the right tool for the job. It’s a little like trying to pound a nail in with a jackhammer, sure it technically works but you just totally ruined whatever you were building. Our military is configured to slice a larger and more ponderous opponent to ribbons. That’s what it does, and it ended up being asked to take on the role of the large ponderous opponent it’s meant to fight.

They should have sent a poet.

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