TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#252476: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:25:34 AM

America the Beautiful

oh just go to the last page if you want context

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 18th 2018 at 9:25:23 AM

i'm tired, my friend
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#252477: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:27:20 AM

[up]

I've said time and again that we should have been having a conversation about possible gun control measures after Virginia Tech in 2007 - over a decade later, and we still haven't had one because of the fucking stonewalling by the NRA.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#252478: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:27:22 AM

I hate how unsurprised and unoutraged I am at this news. I hate it so much that my only thought is mild relief at no-one dying, even though everyone involved could be traumatized by this event.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252479: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:28:46 AM

I once posted here the idea of someone marketing and selling bulletproof backpacks or something.

It still wouldn't be the most depressing Kickstarter out there.

Honestly that would surprise me, not because things aren't that bad but a bullet proof backpack would probably be rather heavy and expensive.

It's an idea that neatly represents the lunacy of the American firearms status-quo but isn't practical enough to actually happen.

I hate how unsurprised and unoutraged I am at this news. I hate it so much that my only thought is mild relief at no-one dying, even though everyone involved could be traumatized by this event.

I know what you mean, though for me it's less hatred and more soul deadened weariness.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 18th 2018 at 9:31:11 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#252480: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:33:36 AM

If Dems take back Congress and win the presidency in 2020, complete and utter annihilation of the NRA should be a top priority. With them out of the way, we have be able to get some decent gun laws in this country.

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252481: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:35:47 AM

At the very least, they should actually push for an investigation into the NRA and its likely ties to the Kremlin.

Disgusted, but not surprised
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#252482: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:42:10 AM

[up] There's no doubt about it at this point. I also feel like gun violence is becoming the new big threat, the way nuclear war was in the Cold War and terrorism was in the late nineties and post 9/11. I've even mulled over creating a comic book character with a mass shooting in her backstory like how Magneto was a victim of the Holocaust.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#252483: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:45:34 AM

Just google “bulletproof backpack” and prepare to be depressed. It’s already a thing.

I saw a few kids with them when I dropped my nephew off for his first day off school recently.

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252484: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:50:15 AM

[up][up]Honestly it's not. At all.

Nuclear warfare was a clear and existential threat to civilization.

Terrorism is more comparable but it's still worse in that terrorism can cause very real damage directly through the obvious means and indirectly through causing ill-advised and hysterical societal decisions.

Gun deaths are a very real issue with a large human cost but it's not really comparable to the others.

[up]Oh... ok. sad

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 18th 2018 at 9:52:29 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#252485: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:55:36 AM

Just had an interesting conversation with one of my more conservative customers (elderly, 70s or 80s for reference) - they've become completely disillusioned with Trump because of his various antics. As to whether that translates into voting for a non-Republican I have no idea, but hopefully he's not alone.

[up]

Eh, yes and no - as I quoted from the article, the constant shootings are inflicting psychological harm, possibly worse than actual terrorism does to the US, due to terroristic events being comparatively few and far between.

Edited by ironballs16 on Aug 18th 2018 at 6:59:02 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#252486: Aug 18th 2018 at 6:57:28 AM

They might stay home, and Trump's voting base being in the elderly means a good portion of them will simply die before they have a chance to vote for him.

Voting for a Democrat is probably outside the realm of possibility.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252487: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:03:46 AM

[up][up][up][up]I'm honestly not really surprised someone is selling these things.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252488: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:14:29 AM

Eh, yes and no - as I quoted from the article, the constant shootings are inflicting psychological harm, possibly worse than actual terrorism does to the US, due to terroristic events being comparatively few and far between.

I suppose that's a fair point, it can be compared to terrorism.

But I hold to my position that comparing it to nuclear warfare is a bridge too far, the threats are completely different in scale and should not be compared for rationalism's sake.

They might stay home, and Trump's voting base being in the elderly means a good portion of them will simply die before they have a chance to vote for him. Voting for a Democrat is probably outside the realm of possibility.
Exactly this, people are far too hung up over getting them to vote Democrat.

In electoral democracy one will never get significant numbers of the opposition’s loyalists to vote for oneself, rather the goal should be driving down their turnout and getting them to stay home. Every Trump voter that stays home is a victory for us.

I'm honestly not really surprised someone is selling these things.

Your sig is universally relevant tongue

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 18th 2018 at 10:25:54 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#252489: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:18:54 AM

Honestly I don't see the value anymore in trying to actually change peoples minds. Every face to face political discussion I've ever been a part of felt like one side saying "OTHER SIDE BAD!!!!!" that I just don't have it in me to even try.

Think what you will of me for it, but I recently turned down a call from the local Democrat parties to do door-knocking and so on. I sincerely was not prepared to entertain the idea.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#252490: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:24:36 AM

I'm not saying it's the same as nuclear warfare, just that it elicits a more raw fear than terrorism among Generation Z because it's an immediate, tangible threat the way Nuclear war was in the cold war. Many of said generation (including myself) were toddlers during most of The War On Terror so terrorism's more of a distant threat.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252491: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:27:37 AM

[up][up]What people are you talking about?

Republicans? Independents? Democrats?

Obviously the partisan cannot be convinced but that just goes to my earlier point that the goal should be to depress their turnout not get them to vote for us.

Not to mention that it's not even universally true. For example to quote the vox article about worker codetermination that I posted fairly recently 35% of Republicans support it, 39% oppose, and 26% aren't sure.

So clearly with that issue the Republicans are not necessarily opposed to it, thus if beneficial it can be used to reduce their votes by depressing turnout or attracting them with support of it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 18th 2018 at 10:27:05 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#252492: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:28:27 AM

Random thought, re: Terrorism vs Gun Violence/School Shooting: Is one of the reasons terrorism incidents were few and far between because we actually did something about them and took the threat seriously? Something we have decidedly not been doing for gun violence?

[up][up]What people are you talking about?

Republicans? Independents? Democrats?

Yes.

More seriously, it's mostly been conservatives I've had conversations with, as I've either lived in a conservative home or a red state (currently in Idaho). It's left me nothing but weary and it's one reason I personally have little patience for politics as a whole and try to avoid falling into the same mindset, even though I concede that risks a bit of Golden Mean Fallacy on my part.

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 18th 2018 at 8:32:22 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252493: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:32:48 AM

[up]The thing is, we were already doing stuff about terrorist attacks before 9-11. A big part of why it happened in the first place was because the administration at the time didn't follow up on some of the warning signs that the people monitoring terrorist activity reported.

The stuff after 9-11 that happened, the whole "War on Terror" — a lot of that was glorified and expensive security theater on a massive scale. We can't really say we are any safer because of it. If anything changed, maybe it's how seriously the government actually takes the warnings of its field agents.

Disgusted, but not surprised
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#252494: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:33:08 AM

[up][up] We did things...such as profiling every Muslim constantly, invading a country, destroying people's privacy, and violating human rights. Many of those measures worked, but not nearly as efficiently as actually listening to intelligence we already had. The sad thing is your point still absolutely stands.

Edit: damn ninjas. [nja]

Edited by fruitpork on Aug 18th 2018 at 10:33:20 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#252495: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:35:02 AM

[up],[up][up] Also terrorism is just pretty rare to begin with. There are way more guns than terrorists in the US.

The thing about guns is that the more they’re around the more likely it is something bad will happen. A common saying is that there’s two types of gun owners, ones who’ve had an accident and ones who are going to have an accident. With the sheer number of guns out there the rate of accidental and intentional shootings has skyrocketed.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 18th 2018 at 7:35:03 AM

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252496: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:36:19 AM

I heard somewhere that the War on Terror was more or less started because it's an easy source of money for the Military Industrial Complex. Supposedly we spend about $100 billion a year on counterterrorism stuff in the USA since 9-11.

Disgusted, but not surprised
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#252497: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:37:05 AM

I mean, from a certain standpoint, gun violence is terrorism. It's just perpetuated by a Vocal Minority who hoard tons of guns like barbie dolls.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#252498: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:40:33 AM

[up][up] It would almost be better if that was the case, because that would mean there was a plan.

Sadly it’s just a garden-variety perfect storm of ignorance, jingoism and justification.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 18th 2018 at 7:42:42 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#252499: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:41:57 AM

[up]This.

The "profit for the military industrial complex" is like the "it's for oil" theory in that it's a fundamentally reductionist attempt to give a the War on Terror a simple cause that's tied to an ideological enemy (i.e predatory capitalism).

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 18th 2018 at 10:41:33 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252500: Aug 18th 2018 at 7:44:01 AM

That there is a possible profit motive probably isn't helping things. You've got ignorance, jingoism, racism, and greed in the mix. While I do doubt the War on Terror was some Evil Plan by the MIC, I do think it's valid to think that the money is part of why there's little political will to call the thing off.

Edited by M84 on Aug 18th 2018 at 10:45:11 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Total posts: 417,856
Top