TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252126: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:01:54 PM

The Defense: "Fuck it, I know when I'm beat. Time to cash in my chips and make a deal...No Manafort, put down that copy of The Art of the Deal. It won't help. At all."

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 11:02:20 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252127: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:02:18 PM

The defense in the Manafort trial rest their case without even offering any witnesses or evidence. This is alarming. It's a show of extreme confidence on their part that the prosecution has failed to provide condemning proof of Manafort's crimes, and therefore that nothing more needs to be said.

It's also possible Manafort doesn't realize he's been Trade Federationed. If his lawyers are answering Der Cheeto, then it's quite possible You Have Outlived Your Usefulness and they plan on having him be the guy they claim is responsible for all the problems the president is accused of.

Sidious promised him peace.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#252128: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:04:41 PM

[up] as I brought up before, the defense not bringing up witnesses in white collar cases like this, is not uncommon.

This is a smart move by the defense unless they had something great to work with. Putting on just a witness or two can seem weak in the face of overwhelming evidence from the prosecution.

This means they proceed directly to closing arguments, with no additional evidence.

Since some of you asked, this is not an unusual move. Typically in a white collar case, the defense calls no witnesses or just a few.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#252129: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:27:17 PM

This is extremely compelling but... I just don't know. Running for office in my view is an almost sacred thing, I just can't condone someone grossly unfit running even if it's just a message.

Well, one answer to that is that his Loophole Abuse drew attention to the loophole, and therefore made it possible to fix. So that's a good thing.

The other answer is this: He found the loophole, he's earned the right to run. Once.

The third answer is that I believe that rhinoceroses and their spiritual heirs, such as the Rhinoceros Party, the Monster Raving Loonies and Lord Buckethead, running for office is a legitimate form of political satire and protest and enhances the overall quality of our politics. But that's my opinion.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252130: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:29:07 PM

[up]Yeah, but those guys are all running as independents. Lord Buckethead isn't a member of Labour or the Tories or the Liberal Democrats. He's Lord Buckethead.

The kid isn't just running for office. He's doing it while running as a Democratic candidate.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 11:29:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252131: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:31:13 PM

If the Democrats can't put a better candidate, that's on them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252132: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:36:01 PM

I don't actually think this kid will win. I'm just pointing out that what he's doing isn't quite the same thing as what the "joke" parties and candidates do.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 11:37:04 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#252133: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:36:16 PM

While I do see the argument of demanding better candidates, I don't think that applies to this situation since it is a literal kid running, and probably not seriously. This seems to be more of a statement if anything. Even so, that does not mean we should seriously argue that the kid is a viable option.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#252134: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:37:44 PM

And you gotta admit, it's going to be hard running against a fourteen year old without coming across as a bully. The other Democratic candidates might be concerned about this.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2018 at 11:37:42 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#252135: Aug 14th 2018 at 8:40:32 PM

Nvm, misread the above post. >.<

Edited by BearyScary on Aug 14th 2018 at 7:43:09 AM

Do not obey in advance.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#252136: Aug 14th 2018 at 9:29:00 PM

We can't say for sure he doesn't seriously expect to win, but he is at least taking his campaign seriously.

i'm tired, my friend
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#252137: Aug 14th 2018 at 10:04:08 PM

Whether he succeeded in getting more younger voters out is something time will tell. As of now though, he got 8% of the vote. The Democratic primary for governor of Vermont has been called in favor of Christine Hallquist. She is the first openly transgender candidate for governor.

Interestingly enough, certain polls have the Vermont governorship as staying Republican, but the amount of voters in the primaries was higher with Democrats.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#252138: Aug 14th 2018 at 10:06:33 PM

”fusion power will always be 60 years away”

While this is several pages old, as a researcher this line of thinking really irks me; while bold (and very premature) claims from the 1950 about fusion power failed to materialize, fusion research isn’t in the same place as it was 60 years ago. It’s both pointlessly cynical and displays a degree of ignorance about the state of the actual research.

There’s no longer really much of a question of whether it’s possible to generate power from fusion on terrestrial scales, the real issue is cost; the most studied fusion reaction, the D-T cycle, will likely never be economically competitive unless tritium is already being mass produced, and that’s by far the easiest reaction to achieve under controlled conditions. This problem could be alleviated if large amounts of tritium were being produced as a byproduct of fission breeder reactors, or if one a means for generating net power from one of the alternative reactions

Now obviously we can’t bank on nuclear fusion breakthroughs bailing out human civilization on climate change (we might have been in such a position had anti-nuclear hysteria not killed enthusiasm and funding for all kinds of nuclear research, but alas), but it’s pretty much the only conveivable scenario where catastrophic climate change can be averted, as the sheer amount of energy which can be generating via fusion would open up numerous brute force options for addressing climate which as impractical or impossible under current energy paradigms.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#252139: Aug 14th 2018 at 10:38:33 PM

It's worth noting that fusion power would probably actually increase fossil fuel usage. Why? Simple: If you have energy, you can create gasoline, and gasoline is a very great form of energy storage.

So what you'd get is the market being flooded with cheap, abundant gasoline. Nobody would have to worry about say, gas mileage in their cars (because it's so cheap) and everyone would be driving gas-guzzlers everywhere.

Having said that, if you can combine fusion with quality electric cars, then you're golden.

Leviticus 19:34
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#252140: Aug 14th 2018 at 10:51:23 PM

So all three justice democrats won their elections. Nice

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#252141: Aug 14th 2018 at 10:51:30 PM

....

I don't think that's how it works.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#252142: Aug 14th 2018 at 11:54:18 PM

[up][up][up]... Abundant electricity does imply synthfuels make more sense, but the choice would not be gasoline - There are synthesis paths to make it from atmospheric carbon and massive amounts of power, and they have been demonstrated, but mostly they are just annoyingly complex. Ammonia, on the other hand, is already the most manufactured chemical on the planet, has a very simple electro-synthesis path and is a reasonable enough fuel.

Edited by Izeinsummer on Aug 14th 2018 at 11:56:17 AM

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#252143: Aug 15th 2018 at 5:11:59 AM

I disagree. I think that progressive campaigns should run on bold policy proposals, because those proposals will get watered down during the process of taking proposal to bill to law. Running on a “realistic”, watered down proposal is setting yourself up for a worse eventual bill.

While this is true, (plus nothing increases turnout and enthusiasm among the base, at least in certain places, like bold proposals and ideas) I think there's also a lot that needs to be said for managing expectations so those are kept realistic, and people don't get discouraged or walk away and undo all the good work you managed to do because it got watered down from what you first promised. So basically a candidate could say something like

"[Insert bold policy idea here] is what I'm going to fight for! Now, I could lie to you and say it'll happen as soon as I'm elected, that I'll wave a wand and everything will be fine. It's going to take work, and there'll be setbacks and times when we get less than what we wanted, but I will never stop working towards it, and I will never stop fighting for you! So go out, talk to your friends, your family, your neighbors, get them talking about [Insert bold policy idea here], because together, we're going to make history and make it happen!"

Of course, the American public being what it is, that much honesty would probably guarantee a loss to the "I'll just wave a wand and all your problems will go away" candidate. wink

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 15th 2018 at 8:19:31 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#252144: Aug 15th 2018 at 5:35:49 AM

Also, burn as much fuel as you like if the fuel is literally being made from the air and fusion.

The problem is the increasing concentration of greenhouse gases, if we get to the point of recycling stuff already there (preferably reducing it too via other means) it only matters for local air quality.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#252145: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:16:58 AM

Fusion is unlikely to become widespread as long as fossil fuels are abundant, by the time we run out climate change is going to be worse than ever and our shortsightedness means that we wouldn't have an adequate replacement.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#252146: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:22:29 AM

Clinton was running on a realist platform: she knew quite well that Congress would never pass Medicare-for-all and envisioned a public option that would seamlessly merge into fully nationalized health insurance once enough people bought into it. The litmus test of "$15/hr minimum wage" is also a bit too arbitrary for my tastes. We ought to be going for a living wage, full stop: tying it to a fixed dollar amount makes for an easy rallying cry without a lot of actual substance behind it.

Congress was never going to pass a public option either since the GOP would have held the house no matter what the outcome of the 2016 election was, and likely never will without a Democratic supermajority in the senate that's all but inconceivable given how white, rural, and unreprensitive of national demographics the senate's electorate is (it's about 80% white now, and will be even more hideously unbalanced in favor of rural states going forwards), and how partisan the parties have become; you aren't going to get a single Republican to vote in favor of a high profile Democrat drafted legislation. To put things into perspective, it took the second worst economic crash in the history of capitalism to give the Democrats a senate supermajority, and it lasted for a grand total of two years.

On the topic of minimum wages, that's an economically suboptimal policy to begin with; in an ideal world wages would be set by collective bargaining, but organized labor has proven itself incapable of adapting to a globalized labor pool and is slowly dying out as a consequence. Minimum wages are also not a long term solution; in the short term in means more cash in the pocket of those at the bottom of the labor hierarchy, but in the long term it means even more aggressive pushes for automation to replace said laborers and more outsourcing to developing countries. Directly subsidizing low wage workers and/or expanding welfare benefits and/or public/subsidized housing to lower the cost of living for them is a better option, economically speaking, than raising the minimum wage.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 15th 2018 at 9:25:37 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#252147: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:25:20 AM

[up] So, is there some reason you'd expect a Sanders-like candidate to do any better at governing, given those conditions?

Hillary Clinton's problem wasn't her policy positions: those were fine. It was the almost religious hate that the Right had developed for her over the past thirty-odd years, hate that ended up getting mirrored across to the left for no good reason.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 15th 2018 at 9:25:41 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#252148: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:26:35 AM

[up] He'd also have failed, and I don't particularly care for Sanders anymore.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 15th 2018 at 9:26:37 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#252149: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:29:59 AM

Florida Republican withdraws from a state level race after pretending to graduate from university decades ago (she attended but failed to complete her degree), with a blatantly fake diploma.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/politics/melissa-howard-miami-university-apology/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#252150: Aug 15th 2018 at 6:38:03 AM

[up] The best part of that article is her campaign consultant trotting out the "fake news" Chewbacca Defense.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Total posts: 417,856
Top