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Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#251951: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:12:47 AM

[up][up]Well, if it works for cowardly media companies, it sure as hell can work for "independent" government agencies.

[up]Last summer he was caught in the midst of a conservative firestorm when phone texts supposedly critical of Trump got leaked out and gave the false impression the FBI was conspiring to remove Trump from office.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 13th 2018 at 11:15:17 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#251952: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:13:44 AM

The FBI is declining to give a reason for his firing or confirm if he was fired by the deputy director against the advise of the internal disciplinary group.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#251953: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:17:25 AM

To be fair, if it was due to anti-Trump tweets, Mueller apparently expelled him from his group for the same thing. Not sure how to feel about that.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251954: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:18:31 AM

It's about the appearance of bias. Mueller is trying to maintain a shop that is as ostentatiously impartial as possible in order to protect the investigation from even the slightest hint of partisan taint. That this will never satisfy a single Republican is beside the point.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#251955: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:18:56 AM

Perhaps the FBI is trying to throw Peter under the bus just to avoid further Trumpian makeover? The first time he tried to do that (firing Comey) it was a firestorm.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 13th 2018 at 11:19:03 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#251956: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:21:23 AM

If he was fired for anti-Trump texts, that's a huge First Amendment violation. If he was fired for the affair, that's fine.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251957: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:24:50 AM

Okay, you're correct about that I misremebered my sources, but political engagement is still declining across the board, and we can be sure it will continue to do so as the GOP creates more and more structural barriers as a buffer against the rising Democrat leaning electorate. Then we have the matter of how skewed some electorates are. The senate has an electorate that is around 80% non-Hispanic white compared to ~62% in the general population.

Fair enough, but you still assume that the Republicans will be able to create the structural barriers.

If Democrats take Congress they'll be able to work on tearing down those barriers and the fact that it looks like they will be able to do very well in local races is quite relevant considering that they'll hugely important in redistricting, thus Democratic success now can lead to large success in the future.

It doesn't mean that everything's going to be perfect, the Republicans will still exist and they'll still be a problem but I think you're being a tad too deterministic on their chances of getting all of their power back, especially when it comes to structural barriers.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#251958: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:31:17 AM

Removing him from anything Trump related was certainly the right call, firing him from the FBI is something there’s plenty of justification for beyond the texts, but the texts seem to be the reason.

Bluntly he probably shouldn’t be granted a job that needs any kind of security clearance ever again, having an affair while working on a top secret investigation into a foreign power’s actions is terrible opsec if nothing else.

I mean seriously, imagine if the Russians had found out about his affair before it became public and tried to blackmail him with that information. There’s a reason that most security clearances require you to be open about your life not just with the organisation but also with anyone who information could be revealed to.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#251959: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:31:56 AM

[up][up] If one party is playing hardball and the other isn't, that puts the former at a significant advantage, and if both parties are playing hardball the likely outcome is a "doom loop" of escalating tit for tat which is unlikely to end without a collapse of the constitutional order. I'm no longer confident the GOP is going to walk back from the brink (which is what would have to happen for us to escape this vicious cycle).

If Democrats end up taking the house and use that to make districts that are more or less fair, the GOP will frame that as a pro-Democrat gerrymander, and inevitably when a Democratic administration is caught holding the ball during a recession or after a foreign policy disaster, they'll end up back in power simply because they're the only alternative to the Democrats.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 13th 2018 at 11:36:04 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251960: Aug 13th 2018 at 8:42:42 AM

[up]Yes this is generally true but also irrelevant, if the Democrats are able to improve the country and make it harder for Republicans to rig the system (both of which are possible) then when the Republicans return to power they are more than likely are going to have less power then they do now and will be unable to really remove the Democratic reforms.

Like Obamacare survived because of how it lasted long enough to entrench itself in the system and thus gained public support when people realized that hey turns out it's not making everything worse and is making some things better. This same phenomenon should be just as powerful if not more so for say Medicare for All, something that would benefit everyone.

So I repeat myself, you're treating the cycle of politics as some kind of path to doom when reactionaries are hardly some new phenomenon. They haven't permanently stopped things from getting better before and they can't do it now.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 13th 2018 at 11:45:46 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#251961: Aug 13th 2018 at 9:07:14 AM

[up] I really hope you're right and I'm wrong. Nothing (at least in terms of politics) would make me happier in fact than to see the American political system right itself from the bottom up as a consequence of popular mobilization against the regressive policies of the GOP. I'm worried whether such mobilization will be possible outside of a catastrophe however, ie a global famine brought on by catastrophic climate change.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 13th 2018 at 12:11:23 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251962: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:05:19 AM

[up]Agreed, I suppose we'll just have to see.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#251963: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:29:57 AM

If he was fired for anti-Trump texts, that's a huge First Amendment violation.

Sadly, it isn't; Public Employees can not make statements that conflict with their respective departments and duties, courtesy of Garcetti v. Caballos. Strozk, being a leading member of the FBI, wouldn't have been allowed to make comments like these against any Political Candidate, even if they were on trial, as it shows bias against them.

Not that I don't support Strozk and wish him the best, it's just that (sadly) he has no Constitutional Ground to stand on, especially with our current Supreme Court...

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#251964: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:34:31 AM

@Larkman: Or they could say they're firing him for the affair when they're actually firing him for the texts. Which wouldn't surprise me.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#251965: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:53:15 AM

Democrats ignore evidence almost as reliably as the GOP when it's inconvenient for them. This is particular true when it comes to economics*, and also crops up in numerous STEM fields (other than climate science) with the environmentalist wing of the party.

Gonna need a source on that. Like I said, I know no one is immune to that and false information is legitimately a problem for both sides, but from what I've seen saying Democrats do it almost as reliably as the GOP is just provably false.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251966: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:55:42 AM

[up]Huh, I completely missed that.

I'm going to have to second the calls for a source, I am not aware of any major economic failings of the Democratic Party and the idea there are problems with climate science frankly seems even more questionable.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251967: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:56:20 AM

I third the request for a source.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#251968: Aug 13th 2018 at 10:59:16 AM

Wow, the United States is a much more racist nation than I thought. These numbers are shocking to me. Makes more sense how Trump is still so relatively popular after the Charlottesville disaster last year.

"Marriage should only be allowed between people of the same race." 29% neutral or agree?

"White people are currently under attack in this country." 43% actually agree with this idiocy?

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/new-poll-majority-of-americans-believe-race-relations-have-worsened-under-president-trump/

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251969: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:07:43 AM

[up]Quite, it's a testament to how racist things used to be that those numbers are actually a fairly good improvement.

But yes anyone who claims that we're in a post-racial nation is either a racist or willfully blind.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 13th 2018 at 2:07:22 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#251970: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:13:15 AM

I never really get being surprised by things like that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251971: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:17:17 AM

[up]<shrugs> I imagine it's a question how racist you think our nation is, especially if you're a white person it's rather easy to be insulated from the racial realities and even if you intellectually know that it exists the scale can be surprising.

(I'm using all the "you's" in a general sense, not talking about you specifically)

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251972: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:20:57 AM

That's why I often go into any racism or race based discussion with the assumption that, as a decently well off white guy, I will never fully grasp just how that sort of thing affects people who aren't decently well off white guys except on an intellectual level, at best.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251973: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:24:14 AM

[up]Me too, I've found it a safe practice to just assume that I don't know the extent of it and listen to minorities when they're talking about their experiences.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 13th 2018 at 2:23:51 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#251974: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:27:06 AM

[up][up][up]I just sort of take it as a given that prejudice and "in-grouping" are a part of human nature, and ever society has a context in which certain specific groups will especially face prejudice. This can get better or worse over time, but I don't expect it'll ever disappear. Though some societies can be better or worse about it (at least in certain ways).

Which is why I've never gotten things like going "I can't believe this still happens in {insert year}!". As if the passage of time fix all issues or if young people can't also be bigoted.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 13th 2018 at 1:27:28 PM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#251975: Aug 13th 2018 at 11:41:49 AM

@Spartan: I'm talking about the Anti-GMO*, anti-nuclear power*, anti-vaxxer, and homeopathy people, the same ones alluded to by @M84. I'll grant you on several of those fronts Democrats are better than Republicans, but not by much, ie it's a <5% difference on support for GMO foods, with both parties majority opinion being decidedly out of line with the scientific consensus. Meanwhile when it comes to nuclear power, Democrats and the left are decidedly in the wrong; with 24% supporting nuclear power compared to 47% of Republicans.

* I'll grant you that there's some more legitimate criticisms on these fronts when it comes to business practices and cost-benefit weighing respectively, but there are a large number of people on the left who seem convinced that GMOs cause cancer and nuclear power is evil, both of which are scientifically untenable positions.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Aug 13th 2018 at 2:46:27 PM


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