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BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#251876: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:29:20 PM

I'm relieved that the alt-right were a small bunch of losers today. I was dreading the anniversary of the shitstorm out of fear of the fascists cooking up another shitstorm.

Do not obey in advance.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251877: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:29:36 PM

[up][up]For extra irony, there was a lot of talk about "solidarity" as well. I mean, I know what they meant, but it falls just a bit short in hindsight.

Furthermore, you'd think people so invested in politics would have a better understanding of how governing works. There's only so much Dems can do when Republicans control the government. If you really want Dens to do something, put them back in the Senate and House and later the Oval Office so they can. And even then, don't think they can just say some magic words and give you Medicare for All. That's not how it works. This shit doesn't happen in a day.

[up]It really was a proverbial Curb-Stomp Battle. I don't think they even got a chance to demonstrate.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 12th 2018 at 7:29:46 AM

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251878: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:32:27 PM

I can't stand people who rail on and on about how the Democratic Party is ineffectual and then complain about how they lose elections. Maybe the Democratic Party would enjoy more electoral success if idiots weren't making public speeches about how "useless" they are.

The Democratic Party might enjoy more success if they bothered to find out why so many of the Left are dissatisfied with them.

Maybe, just maybe, there's something too all the people disgusted and underwhelmed by them that ostensibly share their politics.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 12th 2018 at 4:32:20 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251879: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:35:56 PM

[up]Or maybe it's just people going "politicians BAD".

And anyway, it's still ridiculous to use that counter protest as a soapbox to complain about the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is not the problem, at least not when it concerns the rise of white supremacy.

Edited by M84 on Aug 12th 2018 at 7:39:47 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251880: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:38:45 PM

No, the Democrats have the advantage of, "Not evil."

Which will always triumph over "Evil."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251881: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:40:33 PM

It won't triumph if people keep saying things like "A snake with two heads".

Edited by M84 on Aug 12th 2018 at 7:42:43 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251882: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:42:08 PM

[up][up][up]To be fair, the complaints were brief.

That they came up at all, though...

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251883: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:42:54 PM

[up] Definitely not the right time or place for them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251884: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:46:05 PM

Part of the distaste boils down to the fact that the Democrats repeatedly demonstrated an inability to learn from The Farmer and the Viper. It took something like four years of Obama's presidency to realize the Republicans not only would never cooperate on any projects but were actively hostile to all attempts by the Democrats to do anything.

Up to the point of refusing free medical aid for their disadvantaged citizens. People wanted anger and fight not attempts to compromise with the people out to kill the poor and disadvantaged.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#251885: Aug 12th 2018 at 4:52:00 PM

And how could the Democrats fight back the way the way some want them to when the Republicans have been in control of Congress for a few years now?

Don't catch you slippin' now.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251886: Aug 12th 2018 at 5:42:30 PM

The "hands are tied" argument goes only so far as the Republicans used every single dirty trick and stalling and shouting from the highest when they were a minority in power.

The silence is frustrating.

The Democrats have gotten much better and I attribute that to Obama and other figures inside the party. However, I have nothing but eye-rolls for the people who think they're owed a cookie for the bare minimum of "not fascist."

But, again, I vote Democrats and am acknowledging of the fact the party has been improving.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251887: Aug 12th 2018 at 5:48:16 PM

And do you think the Democrats aren't doing that?

Why do you think that Republicans were complaining about "Democratic obstructionism" or why their health bill failed?

The Democratic Party has shown incredible party discipline regarding their efforts to oppose the Republicans however they can.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 12th 2018 at 8:48:30 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251888: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:02:54 PM

Uh huh. Like how 0 Democrats voted for Gorsuch... oh, wait.

I’m from Indiana. I have done some work with the Indiana Democratic Party. They are almost entirely useless. The vast majority of the party staff and higher ups are entrenched people who are not actually good at organizing. They’re decent at fundraising, but that’s not the same thing. They don’t even bother to run candidates in many races. There’s some great individual elected officials and candidates, but the party and most of the campaign organizers? Not so much.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#251889: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:05:31 PM

[up] The vast majority of political organizations on Earth are like that. By nature, they kind of have to be. Not to excuse the Democrats or anything, since they should be held to a higher standard, but a lot of the complaints surrounding them seem to end up boiling down to “politicians bad”.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 12th 2018 at 6:05:20 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251890: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:05:49 PM

Uh huh. Like how 0 Democrats voted for Gorsuch... oh, wait.

This disproves nothing I said, the Democratic Party opposing Trump is perfectly compatible with the existence of individual defections.

And yes the party discipline has been incredible considering that they lack any real mechanisms to enforce it.

I’m from Indiana. I have done some work with the Indiana Democratic Party. They are almost entirely useless. The vast majority of the party staff and higher ups are entrenched people who are not actually good at organizing. They’re decent at fundraising, but that’s not the same thing. They don’t even bother to run candidates in many races. There’s some great individual elected officials and candidates, but the party and most of the campaign organizers? Not so much.

Yes some local parties are corrupt or incompetent, that isn't really relevant to whether or not the national party is doing enough to oppose Trump.

The vast majority of political organizations on Earth are like that. Not to excuse the Democrats or anything, since they should be held to a higher standard, but a lot of the complaints surrounding them seem to end up boiling down to “politicians bad”.

Quite, I have no problem with people criticizing the party but when their criticisms boil down to "the Democrats aren't literally collectively perfect" then it's hard to take them seriously.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:06:23 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251891: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:06:04 PM

[up][up][up]And Dems in one state being poor is supposed to be an argument for Dems as a whole sucking?

Also, if Dems relied on "dirty tricks" to obstruct Republicans as the Rs did, that would only embolden the "both sides" crowd.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:06:48 AM

i'm tired, my friend
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251892: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:09:25 PM

[up] Not poor; incompetent. Also, the whole “take the high ground” thing is not working so great. You can’t fight an arsonist by reasoning with him while the house burns down; you go get a fire hose.

All I’m saying is that they’re not working miracles/immune to criticism. Poor organizing is part of what got us into this mess.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:10:37 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251893: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:10:49 PM

All I’m saying is that they’re not working miracles/immune to criticism. Poor organizing is part of what got us into this mess.

Ok. Which generally is a decent point, the problem is just that it's not very relevant in the current discussion.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:11:45 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#251894: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:11:34 PM

There's a difference between being immune to criticism and not considering all criticisms valid.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251895: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:12:14 PM

[up][up][up]"Poor" and "incompetent" are synonyms. Ex: "Harry was fired because he was poor at his job."

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:11:44 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251896: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:13:00 PM

[up]To be fair in a political context it can also be used to refer to finances which can result in poor electoral results.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:12:39 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251897: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:23:28 PM

[up][up][up] At the very least, a speaker at a counter protest against white supremacy calling the Democratic Party one of the heads of a snake is not a valid criticism. This was what led to my earlier post.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251898: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:30:52 PM

The Republican health care attack failed because they're disunited and have problems with the fact some of them want it wiped out completely while others realize their own constituents will lynch them.

Trump promised better health care, which is a problem because the Republican platform is "let the poor die."

Hence, they blamed the Democrats for their own failures. The Democrats are a much vaster, more insidious, and more effective threat in Republican ideology than they are in RL.

Also, the "both sides argument being emboldened" doesn't work when the Republicans still claim the Democrats will do it. They actually have supported them being the masters of a vast pedophile ring. We are hell and gone past slander.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 12th 2018 at 6:33:58 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251899: Aug 12th 2018 at 6:34:05 PM

The Republican health care attack failed because they're disunited and have problems with the fact some of them want it wiped out completely while others realize their own constituents will lynch them.

Trump promised better health care, which is a problem because the Republican platform is "let the poor die."

Hence, they blamed the Democrats for their own failures. The Democrats are a much vaster, more insidious, and more effective threat in Republican ideology than they are in RL.

This is true but it does not contradict my point, that the Democratic Party has been doing everything within its power to block Trump whenever they can.

It's simply up to their election efforts and the voters for them to get more power and thus be able to meaningfully oppose Trump and the Republicans.

Also, the "both sides argument being emboldened" doesn't work when the Republicans still claim the Democrats will do it. They actually have supported them being the masters of a vast pedophile ring. We are hell and gone past slander.

Agreed, the struggle is far too serious to tolerate any hesitation or holding any tools back.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 12th 2018 at 9:34:31 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#251900: Aug 12th 2018 at 7:07:23 PM

Uh huh. Like how 0 Democrats voted for Gorsuch... oh, wait.

Moot point. It wouldn't have made an ounce of a difference if Donnelly or Heitkamp voted against his nomination, because he would've been confirmed anyway. Oh and they would be much more likely to lose reelection this year, as some polls have showed.

Do they want to preserve healthcare, marriage equality? Yes. Are they fighting discrimination, acknowledging climate change, making sure the wealth doesn't go solely to the 1%? Yes, and that's more than enough to have my hypothetical vote, unlike the opposite GOP.

Life is unfair...

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