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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251801: Aug 11th 2018 at 3:20:39 PM

That agenda sounds like it could backfire horribly on the Conservatives.

Quite, in an election where the Democratic base has shown signs of being highly motivated publicly stating that you want to have a constitutional convention to reshape the highest law in the land in your imagine is... bold and also foolish.

This sounds like the perfect thing to increase Democratic turnout even further.

I'm curious where these conservatives get the idea that 2/3 of the states will support them.

The same reason the alt-right calls any opposition of racism or other forms of bigotry "virtue signalling", because in their heart of hears they assume that everyone is as vile as they are.

A foolish mistake.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 11th 2018 at 6:21:24 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#251802: Aug 11th 2018 at 3:22:17 PM

Don't be so sure on that one. The danger I see would be much like the non-binding EU referendum - if something as grand as a constitutional convention is called, any outcome or recommendation will have a momentum all of it's own, ripe to be exploited as being the declared "will of the people."

(FYI this was in reference to the point that nothing a constitutional convention would produce would get 2/3 vote in Congress)

Edited by singularityshot on Aug 11th 2018 at 11:25:38 AM

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#251803: Aug 11th 2018 at 3:43:26 PM

[up][up] Not to mention if the Democrats got 2/3rds of the states. Oops, now they can undo whatever terrible policies the Conservatives put up, regardless if they are federal law or a Supreme Court decision.

Edited by CookingCat on Aug 11th 2018 at 3:48:58 AM

Imca (Veteran)
#251804: Aug 11th 2018 at 3:50:12 PM

I actualy think they have that one, most of the states do tend to go red, which is why house and congress are so hard to get...

Because most of the population is compressed within a few states, and the rural areas are where the alt-right ideals thrive.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251805: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:05:21 PM

[up]The Republican domination of local legislature is not some immutable fact of the American system, yes the it does tend to favor them but they gained it IIRC in 2008 and 2010 and they can lose it too.

And they're well aware of that fact, for example there have been over 40 special elections for local legislatures and Democrats have flipped 24 seats while Republicans have only flipped 5. So it would be a mistake to assume that their dominance cannot be challenged.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 11th 2018 at 7:05:10 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Imca (Veteran)
#251806: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:10:37 PM

Challanged maybe, but the 2/3rds of states would defiantly favor them.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251807: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:12:34 PM

I mean... the actual evidence says no. Their house majority will very likely be challenged, local legislatures aren't safe, and even the Senate may be in play.

Like even in a hypothetical world where Hillary Clinton got elected and where we would be facing a red wave right now probably wouldn't have 2/3 of the states agree with them. Like there's a reason constitutional conventions don't happen often, the requirements are extremely high.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251808: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:26:53 PM

If I recall correctly, actually, we are within one or two state legislatures of the Republicans having enough state legislatures to do a constitutional convention and pass pretty much anything they want. Even though people often pay less attention to state legislatures, the gerrymandering is really severe.

My state, Indiana? Overall, it tends to vote about 55-45 red to blue, maybe 60-40 if the Democrat turnout is low.

Our legislature is about 80% Republican and 20% Democrat.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#251809: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:49:08 PM

Wait, what are we apparently expecting Republicans to have a Constitutional Convention over?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#251810: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:50:46 PM

why to remove those pesky Democrats once and for all!

Probably more bending the rules to suit themselves

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#251811: Aug 11th 2018 at 4:53:24 PM

[up][up][up]

That Guardian article said that the people who just wanted a Balanced Budget Amendment have 28/34, I imagine the full "ban fiscal policy" suite of amendments has less support than that.

[up][up]

Balanced Budget Amendment, no Income Tax, 3/5ths of the states can veto any federal law. And term limits for Congressmen for some reason.

Probably not going to happen, but if it does I look forward to the edifying sight of America involuntarily stabbing itself to death the moment there's the slightest recession.

[down]

Was being sarcastic at the terrible economic policy. I wouldn't exactly enjoy watching it happen, not least because it would screw most of the rest of us almost as much despite probably banishing the deficit hawks. At the very least Germany and China would be in big trouble, since somewhere has to have the money to buy their exports.

Edited by DeathorCake on Aug 11th 2018 at 12:45:53 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251812: Aug 11th 2018 at 5:23:34 PM

Don’t forget the conservative dream of constitutional amendments to enact religious “freedom”, ban gay marriage, and ban abortion.

Also, I know plenty of people are pissed at America for plenty of valid reasons, but saying you’d enjoy watching the country stab ourselves to death if the republicans manage to force a constitutional convention on the rest of us and make awful amendments is... a bit much. Trump lost the popular vote, goddammit, a lot of us did not vote for any of this.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251813: Aug 11th 2018 at 5:26:10 PM

[up]But a bunch of other people did and we're responsible for that even if we voted for Clinton for some reason

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 11th 2018 at 8:27:57 AM

i'm tired, my friend
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#251814: Aug 11th 2018 at 5:38:50 PM

One thing I just heard about: r/The_Donald is trying to kill off the Qanon bullshit that they started by deleting posts and banning the topic alltogether.

Qanon has become too much for some of the web’s most die-hard Trump supporters — the moderators of Reddit’s r/The_Donald, a message board of Trump supporters that boasts almost 640,000 members and is one of the most active communities on the entire website.

Two moderators of the community, who oversee the subreddit and its hundreds of posts per day, told NBC News that they have banned Qanon posts and automatically delete any new posts about the theory that they now view as an embarrassment to their community. The moderators declined to disclose their real names to NBC News out of concerns for their privacy.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#251815: Aug 11th 2018 at 5:39:21 PM

The Republicans being able to alter the constitution would be a nightmare scenario that all but ensures the country's demise (and perhaps the demise of others). That is the kind of thing that ensures the document, the heart and soul of the nation, is corrupted beyond repair. Control on that scale would make gods of men and hells of states. And I highly doubt that the GOP wouldn't seize the opportunity when it comes.

All the more reason why we must ensure that they don't get 2/3rds of the states.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 11th 2018 at 5:42:02 AM

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#251816: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:00:10 PM

[up][up] These shits never learned that when you make a bed, you better be ready to lie in it.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251817: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:09:01 PM

It irritates me to no end seeing Christians tying their faith to such a monster.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251818: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:09:43 PM

[up]x5 Oh, there’s absolutely culpability on all of us (Americans).

However, that doesn’t mean that it’d be hilarious if the worst came to pass. I’ll also point out that people who voted for Trump or who make excuses for Trump voting relatives are WAY, WAY more culpable than the black and Latino voters who rejected Trump en masse. Or people who didn’t vote due to voter suppression versus those who didn’t vote due solely to apathy/laziness.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 11th 2018 at 9:09:18 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251819: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:38:12 PM

Oh, there’s absolutely culpability on all of us (Americans).

I fundamentally disagree, myself and people like me did everything within our power to oppose Donald Trump. Thus I refuse to apply a single ounce of culpability to myself or others.

Otherwise you get a ridiculous definition of culpability that is broad to the point of uselessness.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251820: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:52:08 PM

Did you talk to all your conservative acquaintances and/or family? Did you canvas? Did you phone bank?

Most people could have done a little more to help. The degree of culpability is low, but it’s not zero.

That said, I do agree that we should first and foremost blame Trump voters. Then maybe a little blame for nonvoters and Green Party voters in swing states. But yeah, vast majority of the blame is on the Republican Party and Trump voters.

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#251821: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:54:03 PM

[up] Hey, the Electoral College is what screwed us. The majority of Americans voted against the GOP/Trump.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251822: Aug 11th 2018 at 6:55:55 PM

Did you talk to all your conservative acquaintances and/or family? Did you canvas? Did you phone bank?

Yes, I convinced my Evangelical Grandparents that Trump was terrible (though admittedly they were well on the way to believing that without me).

And no I did not canvas or phone bank, at the time I was preoccupied with health issues and college. Though it's worth noting that my district went to Clinton by IIRC 95%+ (because it was minority heavy).

So yes I did all that was within my power to oppose Trump, and I intend to continue doing it.

Most people could have done a little more to help. The degree of culpability is low, but it’s not zero.

That said, I do agree that we should first and foremost blame Trump voters. Then maybe a little blame for nonvoters and Green Party voters in swing states. But yeah, vast majority of the blame is on the Republican Party and Trump voters.

Honestly I think it would be best if we agreed to disagree, the difference between zero culpability and a very low amount is not nearly large enough to justify arguing over it.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 11th 2018 at 9:59:09 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251823: Aug 11th 2018 at 7:00:10 PM

I think we can blame the Nazis for this.

Not the people that voted against them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#251824: Aug 11th 2018 at 7:04:49 PM

[up]x9 I fucking hate that trope.

Edited by CookingCat on Aug 11th 2018 at 7:04:40 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#251825: Aug 11th 2018 at 7:09:24 PM

All I'll say is that if the Republicans ever manage a constitutional convention (and that's a very big if), there will be a Civil War in the aftermath. Mark my words.


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