TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#251426: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:12:15 PM

^I would agree with that if it was being used in a respectful manner or with any indication that people understand the actual religious significance it has, instead of it being a punchline for people who say things like "lol the mcdonalds ice cream machine is my spirit animal its never working either #mcdonalds #burn', or as in the quote from last page, 'Beyonce riding a bear in the manner of Vladimir Putin'. It's not being treated as a religious concept, it's being treated as a jokey way to say 'I like this thing'.

Edit: Well, that's a pagetopper.

Edited by RedSavant on Aug 7th 2018 at 1:13:34 PM

It's been fun.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#251427: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:14:38 PM

Whether you think it's harmful or not, it's definitely isn't harmful not to use it. And I can't imagine a situation where it would be a big deal if you didn't.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#251428: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:19:18 PM

It's closer to "I identify with this thing" than "I like this thing", but I see your point.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#251429: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:22:53 PM

But religious concept have been, and will always be used in jokey manners all the time. Aaaaaaaaaaaa.

Nevermind, are all elections and primaries done now for the day?

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#251430: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:28:25 PM

^True, but most of those are still given an implicit legitimacy even when they're being joked about, because they come from major religions that are widely followed. Using 'spirit animal' for jokes just underscores how little people know or care to know about what it actually means to indigenous people. It's punching down in a cultural sense.

Aaaanyway, that's enough from me. Sorry folks.

Edited by RedSavant on Aug 7th 2018 at 1:28:08 PM

It's been fun.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#251431: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:29:51 PM

Personally, I'd recommend sticking to your own religion when making religious jokes - that way, you lessen the risk of being offensive through your ignorance.

Oh God! Natural light!
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#251432: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:35:24 PM

I find it... Funny... That there's people dismissing the use of a term that's cultural appropriation as 'fine' on the basis that it's in common parlance.

Makes you think that, perhaps, one should look up what a term being used to criticise what one has been doing means before trying to excuse why one should just get to keep going on doing what one has been doing.

Angry gets shit done.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#251433: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:52:35 PM

I think if you use appropriation too casually it loses its power. This is my go to example for a guy who stole and profited off First Nations culture.

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/fool-s-gold-the-story-of-jamake-highwater-the-fake-indian-who-won-t-die-TWNcn2mC8EKDindk8TYh6g/

He's the guy Star Trek Voyager hired to create Chakotay.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 7th 2018 at 11:00:24 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#251434: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:04:14 PM

^That's a reasonable concern, but you don't need to profit off of something to use it in a casual and disrespectful manner for your own convenience, is my point. They're both symptoms of the same societal disregard for cultures that are seen as lesser, and picked apart for what's convenient while the rest gets tossed.

It's been fun.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#251435: Aug 8th 2018 at 12:01:42 AM

I was hearing some polling stations in Detroit lost power yesterday.

Also, heard sone polling stations in Michigan actually ran out of paper ballots.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#251436: Aug 8th 2018 at 12:04:53 AM

The problem is that our cultures are supposed to influence each other. That is how we develop, by getting inspiration from people outside of our respective communities.

It's like the difference between stereotypes, which actually are something humans are hard wired to use (ie someone tells us that she or he is a Muslim we might ask if a specific dish is okay to serve, even though not all Muslims are following the same food rules, but it is still polite to ask, just in case) and harmful stereotypes, which are designed to create the notion that another group of people is somehow lesser than your own.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#251437: Aug 8th 2018 at 12:11:13 AM

Lesser or greater. Positive stereotypes are still bad, in that they minimize the efforts of the individual and also still divide people.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#251438: Aug 8th 2018 at 1:18:10 AM

What phrase can replace it without requiring you to be super into a specific pop culture fandom?

It probably draws its roots from the spirit animal concept but like the Patronus there’s the Dæmon if you’re a His Dark Materials fan.

For a more general cultural idea you’ve got the familiar from English witchcraft.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251439: Aug 8th 2018 at 5:22:35 AM

Bring honest (and coming from a fat white guy so take this for what it's worth) I feel like this spirit animal thing is getting a bit blown out of proportion, especially given wisewillow's actual complaint, to me, amounted to "I think other people will be offended".

I could understand it if it were an actual Native American troper upset by it (which I don't know if wisewillow is), if this were an expression that is considered offensive regardless of whether anyone actually is (which is not an impression I got), or if the person who originally used the expression were actively being offensive (the statement seemed genuine, if maybe thoughtless given the discussion that erupted). But this comes off in my eyes as getting all up in arms over a random turn of phrase.

But that's just my opinion and I have no real stake in this one, so (shrug).

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 8th 2018 at 6:22:41 AM

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#251440: Aug 8th 2018 at 5:37:33 AM

So, the Ohio election is going to be hanging in the balance with provisional and mail in ballots. As per Nate Silver from 538's live blog of election night:

So, O’Connor needs to win the absentee/provisional ballots by 21 percentage points to win the state if all of those ballots are counted, which they presumably won’t be. So let’s round up a bit and say he’d have to win them by 25 points. Provisionals tend to be very Democratic leaning, and so it wouldn’t be crazy to think he could get there if all of the uncounted votes were provisionals. However, the majority of them are actually absentees, and those won’t necessarily be Democratic. So it’s something of a long shot, but there are enough votes there that I wouldn’t want to “call” the race, unless I knew more about the nature of who tends to vote absentee in the district.

There'll be a 10 day delay before the provisional and absentee ballots are counted.

Also interesting form 538's number crunching is that turnout is down overall in Ohio-12 from 2014, but up in the main Democratic county/counties, and down in Republican.

Other interesting notes from last night:

The top prosecutor in St. Louis, who was very reluctant to move against the police despite their abuses, particular in Ferguson, was voted out and replaced by a black criminal justice reform advocate.

As I noted last night, most of the Bernie wing took it on the chin, mostly losing lopsidedly. The only exceptions are Brian Welder in the Kansas's 3rd district who's currently down by a couple hundred votes, and Rashida Tlaib, who won in the Michigan 13th.

If she pulls through and wins the November general (extremely likely given the district's history) she'll be the first Palestinian-American and first Muslim woman to serve in Congress. Tlaib has a history as a state rep in Michigan.

The ballot proposal to end so called "Right to work" laws in Missouri went down overwhelmingly, with more than 64% voting against right to work.

Recent news stories worth mentioning:

Thanks to Trump's executive orders, public sector unions are being evicted from the offices of workers they represent, drastically cutting down on the ability of union members to easily or privately meet with union reps.

Both Steve Bannon and 538 agree that Republicans have lost educated white women. In 2016 Men favored the Republican party by 12 percentage points while women favored Democrats by 10 percentage points. That's a 22% gap, which some polls have already shown widening to 24% in 2018, maybe perhaps further with time. Among women with a college degree, and it's much, much wider.

Earlier this month, former White House adviser Stephen K. Bannon told the Daily Beast that while college-educated women were tricky for President Trump and Republicans, their votes might still be within reach.

“College-educated Republican women in the suburbs are a challenge,” he said. “You are not going to be able to easily secure their support, a top target for the Democrats. Maybe they don’t vote for the other side and maybe they straggle in because their 401(k) is up. But it’s gonna be a challenge.”

Talking to Vanity Fair’s Gabriel Sherman more recently, though, Bannon was much more pessimistic.

“The Republican college-educated woman is done,” Bannon replied. “They’re gone. They were going anyway at some point in time. Trump triggers them.”

I spend a decent amount of time looking at polls and data, and Bannon’s comments struck me as accurate. On Monday, I looked at how women broadly were lining up in opposition to Trump and the Republican Party at unusual levels; the idea that white, college-educated women might be out of play rings largely true.

...

In the most recent Post poll, conducted with the Schar School, the gap was 47 points in favor of the Democrats among white women with college degrees

Bankruptcy rates among seniors have tripled since 1990, and that's despite Bush era laws that make it harder to declare bankruptcy and which gives the bankrupt fewer protections.

John Bolton was forced to admit that North Korea has taken no steps towards denuclearization despite Trump's assertions otherwise, and Trump is reportedly trying to push for another meeting to beg Kim to get with he program

The President begging someone else to do something is always a good look.[/sarcasm]

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 8th 2018 at 8:39:35 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251441: Aug 8th 2018 at 5:40:00 AM

[up][up]I’m not Native American, nor was I particularly upset/offended. My comment was basically “hey, FYI, this phrase is kinda insensitive, here’s why.”

I like learning new things, and I also like sharing what I know. Not everything is a huge deal, but being more mindful of little things isn’t a bad thing either smile

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2018 at 8:42:06 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251442: Aug 8th 2018 at 5:47:00 AM

All well and good, except somewhere on the way a molehill turned into a mountain.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#251443: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:17:02 AM

Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't the actual native American belief more the totem animal (and that one is not a unified belief), while is is western spiritualism which often has the concept of the spirit guide (most likely inspired by the native American belief), while the spirit animal is something which mostly turns up in fantasy romans (edit: I naturally meant novels, no idea where my mind was)? And I guess there is also the concept of having an animal represent your tribe, but that is not THAT different from the origins of European heraldic.

Edited by Swanpride on Aug 8th 2018 at 8:42:33 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#251444: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:17:56 AM

Disappointing that we lost Ohio. Is Balderson a Trump-ite, or just a standard Republican?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251445: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:27:56 AM

[up][up] You should read the articles that I posted. There are some major differences and no, it has nothing to do with the Romans.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#251446: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:34:28 AM

[up]I think she means novels not Romans.

Roman is German for novel. Which is a false friend I haven't seen since 5th grade...🙄

Edited by 3of4 on Aug 8th 2018 at 3:55:24 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#251447: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:39:05 AM

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross is alleged to have stolen $120 million from various businesses he worked for

His pattern seems remarkably similar certain sexual predators and their uses of non-disclosure agreements to silence victims: hang out the prospect of a punishing court fight, offer a settlement instead, with the agreement that nobody be allowed to talk about it afterward.

    Wilbur Ross = Bernie Madoff? 
A multimillion-dollar lawsuit has been quietly making its way through the New York State court system over the last three years, pitting a private equity manager named David Storper against his former boss: Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross. The pair worked side by side for more than a decade, eventually at the firm, WL Ross & Co.—where, Storper later alleged, Ross stole his interests in a private equity fund, transferred them to himself, then tried to cover it up with bogus paperwork. Two weeks ago, just before the start of a trial with $4 million on the line, Ross and Storper agreed to a confidential settlement, whose existence has never been reported and whose terms remain secret.

It is difficult to imagine the possibility that a man like Ross, who Forbes estimates is worth some $700 million, might steal a few million from one of his business partners. Unless you have heard enough stories about Ross. Two former WL Ross colleagues remember the commerce secretary taking handfuls of Sweet’N Low packets from a nearby restaurant, so he didn’t have to go out and buy some for himself. One says workers at his house in the Hamptons used to call the office, claiming Ross had not paid them for their work. Another two people said Ross once pledged $1 million to a charity, then never paid. A commerce official called the tales “petty nonsense,” and added that Ross does not put sweetener in his coffee.

There are bigger allegations. Over several months, in speaking with 21 people who know Ross, Forbes uncovered a pattern: Many of those who worked directly with him claim that Ross wrongly siphoned or outright stole a few million here and a few million there, huge amounts for most but not necessarily for the commerce secretary. At least if you consider them individually. But all told, these allegations—which sparked lawsuits, reimbursements and an SEC fine—come to more than $120 million. If even half of the accusations are legitimate, the current United States secretary of commerce could rank among the biggest grifters in American history.

Not that he sees himself that way. “The SEC has never initiated any enforcement action against me,” Ross said in a statement, failing to mention the $2.3 million fine it levied against his firm in 2016. The commerce secretary also noted that one lawsuit against him got dismissed, without saying it is currently going through the appeals process. Ross confirmed settling two other cases, including the recent one against Storper, but declined to offer additional details.

Those who’ve done business with Ross generally tell a consistent story, of a man obsessed with money and untethered to facts. “He’ll push the edge of truthfulness and use whatever power he has to grab assets,” says New York financier Asher Edelman. One of Ross’ former colleagues is more direct: “He’s a pathological liar.”

...

Ross also allegedly skimmed money by serving on corporate boards of his firm’s portfolio companies. Again, the rule was that a portion of the fees that WL Ross employees got for serving on such boards was essentially supposed to be handed back to investors as rebates. Instead, Ross' firm did not give back enough, according to ex-colleagues. Ross "was like a kid in a candy store," says one of his former employees. "He pilfered it."

Ross is now attempting to distance himself from the management fee issues. “No regulatory agency has ever asserted such charges or any other charges against me and there is no basis for any such allegations,” he said in a statement.

Eight former employees and investors, however, said Ross presumably knew about the issues. And former WL Ross employees add that the costs were far greater than the $14.2 million announced by the Securities & Exchange Commission. A 2015 annual report for Invesco, WL Ross’ parent company, disclosed that the company had paid another $43 million over the last two years in reimbursements and regulatory expenses connected to its private equity business. Secretary Ross has largely avoided scrutiny around those payments because the report does not explicitly tie them to his former firm. Four former employees who worked there, however, told Forbes the $43 million was connected to WL Ross.

With the investors’ claims apparently behind him, Ross now faces a lineup of allegations from his former colleagues, who say he robbed them of money as well. Such accusations are nothing new for Ross. In 2005, former WL Ross vice chairman Peter Lusk sued the future commerce secretary for $20 million, ultimately alleging that he had tried to cut him out of his interests. The executives reached a settlement in 2007, which former WL Ross employees say cost roughly $10 million. Asked to comment on the suit, Ross responded, “The Lusk case ended with mutual confidentiality requirements.”

Three years ago, Storper launched what became a $4 million lawsuit against both his former employer, WL Ross, and former boss, the commerce secretary, alleging that Ross stole his interests. Attorneys for Ross admitted in court filings that one of his companies took Storper’s interest and reallocated part of it to the commerce secretary. But Ross’ lawyers also insisted all of that was allowed under internal agreements. “Simply put,” they wrote, “this lawsuit is a personal vendetta against Mr. Ross.” After a judge rejected attempts to prevent the case from going to trial, just days before the jury selections the two sides agreed to settle.

What makes it all more than a typical “he-said, she-said” dispute is the number of similar complaints against Ross. A third former WL Ross employee, Joseph Mullin, filed a $3.6 million lawsuit in December 2016, saying WL Ross funds “looted” his interests “for the personal benefit of Wilbur L. Ross, Jr.—and attempted to conceal their misconduct through opaque and misleading tax statements and disclosures.” A New York State court dismissed that case in February on technical grounds, saying Mullin, who left WL Ross in 2007, waited too long to file it. He is now appealing.

Storper and two other former high-ranking executives at WL Ross filed yet another lawsuit against the commerce secretary in November, alleging that he and his firm charged at least $48 million of improper fees, then pocketed the money. It was a slow siphoning rather than a one-time heist, according to the lawsuit. Private equity firms typically collect management fees—those 1.5% charges—only from their outside clients. But the lawsuit alleges that Ross and his firm seemingly charged current and former company executives as well. It would be like a restaurant owner telling his employees that they can eat for free—while taking the meal money out of their paychecks. In a statement to Forbes, Ross called the case “without merit.” He moved to dismiss it in February, but the suit remains active.

Only the best people.

Beware of bias and selective editing, of course, but here's some footage from before and during the police crackdown in the Portland white supremacist rally. Footage includes snippets of interviews with both antifa/anti racist protestors, facist white supremacists, and the moments that the police crackdown began. My "favorite" moment is no doubt the one guy wearing a "Pinochet did nothing wrong" t-shirt. (Referring to stories of Pinochet's regime taking communists, protestors, and various other torture victims and such in helicopters over the ocean, then throwing those poor people out the side, to either die on impact with the water or drown. For those who don't know it's a favorite meme among fascists, and one they dream about getting to partake in someday.)

In lighter news, an Infowars "reporter" tried to claim that Facebook shutting down Infowars was a violation of free speech because Facebook is a public company, apparently mixing up public as in shares are traded publicly and public as in public sector, in other words the government. The internet responded to this ignorance and stupidity in style

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 8th 2018 at 9:38:54 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#251448: Aug 8th 2018 at 6:42:35 AM

Disappointing that we lost Ohio. Is Balderson a Trump-ite, or just a standard Republican?

He seems pretty Trumpy, and tied himself thoroughly to Trump.

That said, it's not lost yet. Balderson is up by ~1,700 votes and there are somewhere around ~9,000 provisional and absentee ballots to be counted, if I'm remembering both numbers correctly. It could be enough to put O'Connor over the top, or to force a recount. We'll have to see how it al pans out.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#251449: Aug 8th 2018 at 7:12:56 AM

'New York Rep. Chris Collins indicted on insider trading charges [1]

Chris Collins, a Republican congressman from upstate New York, surrendered to the FBI on Wednesday morning on securities fraud-related charges, prosecutors said.

Collins, 68, faces insider trading charges along with his son, Cameron Collins, and Stephen Zarsky, the father of Cameron Collins' fiancée, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York.

The case is related to Innate Immunotherapeutics, an Australian biotech company, on which the elder Collins served on the board.

Collins, one of Donald Trump's early supporters in his bid for president, is expected to appear in federal court later Wednesday in Manhattan.

The three-term incumbent represents New York's 27th Congressional District, which includes suburbs of Buffalo and Rochester, and is up for re-election in November. He has raised more than $1.34 million in his campaign war chest, according to the latest Federal Election Commission filing.

Political analysts have considered his Democratic opponent's bid a long shot, the Niagara Gazette reported last month.

Edited by megaeliz on Aug 8th 2018 at 10:14:52 AM

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#251450: Aug 8th 2018 at 7:26:17 AM

An underappreciated factor into the whole US-China trade dispute is that the US's strong economy is what's encouraging Trump to go to a trade war, not step back from one.

As long as the US economy is strong, Trump will feel emboldened to hurt China in whatever misguided way possible, regardless of the collateral damage.

Meaning? The only way I see a way out is if there's an economic collapse, which is one of the Trump presidency's worst-case scenarios because it would be the 1930's all over again, and by the time progressives (if they do) retake power in the US the rest of the West's democracies will be run by outright fascists with no belief in deterrence or restraint because of the economic meltdown.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 8th 2018 at 10:26:16 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher

Total posts: 417,856
Top