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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#251326: Aug 7th 2018 at 9:56:02 AM

Who the hell is saying anything about Iranian being unreasonable monsters anyway?

Oh really when?
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251327: Aug 7th 2018 at 9:57:47 AM

[up]No-one, they're conflating the unreasonable vitriol common amongst the Right with the very concept of viewing Iran as an enemy.

Which is ridiculous for the obvious reasons.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 7th 2018 at 12:59:53 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251328: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:00:10 AM

Iran's an enemy, but they're not an unreasonable one. The Nuclear Deal would never have been a thing in the first place if they were unreasonable.

Disgusted, but not surprised
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#251329: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:02:20 AM

The sanctions only worked IIRC because the EU, Russia and China went along. I don't see that happening this time.

Trump delenda est
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#251330: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:03:16 AM

If I were a conspiracy-minded person, I'd theorize that there is a certain political expediency to having some "other" on the other side of the world as an enemy who is in no position to significantly hurt you.

But I suppose that would be very North-Korea-ish

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#251331: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:03:23 AM

The USA is a huge part of the global economy, but it's not the entire global economy.

[up]The problem with that line of thinking of course is that no one is truly harmless.

Edited by M84 on Aug 8th 2018 at 1:03:29 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#251332: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:31:56 AM

[up]X3 Hell the sanctions were only agreed to becuse Iran got sick of the US making shit up about Iranian nuclear weapons and started seriously looking into nuclear weapons, it was a Then Let Me Be Evil moment for Iran that got smacked down by the rest of the world.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#251333: Aug 7th 2018 at 10:59:38 AM

It really seems like both sides here are yelling over each other and strawmanning. Swanpride's not saying "Iran is blameless," they're saying "the US needs to admit we dun fucked up." The other side isn't saying that Iran's nothing but monsters, but it's saying that they are also currently dun fucking up.

I'm 90% sure everyone basically agrees here

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251334: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:07:25 AM

[up]This is false, they said that the US started the war unprovoked thus clearly trying to absolving Iran of any responsibility. And when I brought up the Embassy hostage situation and Iran's support of proxies they tried to excuse that as-well, thus they're clearly pushing the narrative that Iran is blameless.

Which is false, the US created Iran as an enemy but that doesn't mean they don't have any responsibility for all their actions done long after the coup.

So no only one side is using strawmen and it's not mine.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:08:30 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251335: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:16:48 AM

Literally nobody here has said the U.S. is blameless or that Iran is pure evil, except for the one person who's using those claims to strawman our arguments. Said user might find themselves in trouble if they keep it up.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251336: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:32:00 AM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/08/07/day-565/

Day 565: Reluctance.

1/ Rudy Giuliani to Robert Mueller: "We have a real reluctance about allowing any questions about obstruction" of justice. Trump's lead attorney plans to largely rebuff Mueller's latest offer for an in-person interview with Trump, which included questions about obstruction of justice. Instead of simply rejecting Mueller's request out of hand, Giuliani expects to continue negotiating with Mueller since "The president still hasn't made a decision and we’re not going to make a final decision just yet." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/08/06/giuliani-preparing-letter-to-mueller-expressing-real-reluctance-over-obstruction-questions/?utm_term=.9910aa9297a5

2/ The Trump administration wants to make it harder for legal immigrants to become U.S. citizens. Trump's proposal would prevent legal immigrants from obtaining citizenship or green cards if they've ever used social programs like the Affordable Care Act, children's health insurance, food stamps, or other social benefits programs. The proposal is the brainchild of Stephen Miller and would not require congressional approval. If enacted, it would represent the biggest change to the U.S. legal immigration system in decades, and more than 20 million immigrants could be affected. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/now-trump-administration-wants-limit-citizenship-legal-immigrants-n897931

3/ Brett Kavanaugh argued that it's a "traditional exercise of power by Presidents" to ignore laws they view as unconstitutional. "If the President has a constitutional objection to a statutory mandate or prohibition, the President may decline to follow the law unless and until a final Court order dictates otherwise," Kavanaugh wrote in an August 13, 2013, opinion. Trump's Supreme Court nominee made the 2013 assertion while defending George W. Bush's use of signing statements to ignore laws passed by Congress. Kavanaugh served as White House staff secretary and had a role in coordinating Bush's statements accompanying legislation he signed into law. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/06/politics/brett-kavanaugh-president-ignore-laws-unconstitutional/index.html

poll/ 43% of Republicans think Trump "should have the authority to close news outlets engaged in bad behavior." 36%, however, disagreed with the statement. 48% said they believed "the news media is the enemy of the American people" with 79% saying they believe "the mainstream media treats President Trump unfairly." (Daily Beast)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-poll-43-of-republicans-want-to-give-trump-the-power-to-shut-down-media

Notables.

Jared Kushner used to delete "critical" stories about his friends and real estate peers while he was in charge of the New York Observer. Kushner would sidestep editors and instead order web developers to remove the stories directly from the Observer's website. (Buzz Feed News / New York Magazine)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stevenperlberg/jared-kushner-new-york-observer

Voters will cast ballots in five states today — Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Washington, and Ohio. Here's what to watch for. (NBC News / New York Times)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/here-are-six-things-watch-today-s-elections-n898261

Wilbur Ross has been accused of stealing as much as $120 million from former business partners. A lawsuit by David Storper alleges that Ross stole his interests in a private equity fund, transferred them to himself, then tried to cover it up with bogus paperwork. (Forbes)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/08/06/new-details-about-wilbur-rosss-businesses-point-to-pattern-of-grifting/

The EPA will allow manufacturers to use asbestos to create new products. The agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments when assessing new products. Asbestos-related deaths total nearly 40,000 annually. (Architects Newspaper)

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

The Mendocino Complex fire is now the largest wildfire in California history, and stretches across more than 283,000 acres. So far, firefighters have only been able to contain 30% of the fire. Trump, meanwhile, blamed the fires on "bad environmental laws which aren't allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized," complaining that water needed is being "diverted into the Pacific Ocean." Cal Fire refuted Trump's claim, saying "We have plenty of water to fight these fires … The current weather is causing more severe and destructive fires." (Los Angeles Times / ABC 7 News)

https://abc7.com/politics/cal-fire-responds-to-president-trumps-tweet-/3896820/

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251337: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:34:54 AM

That poll about media honesty is scary. And yay, more asbestos in our products! Who needs functioning lungs, anyway?

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:36:50 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#251338: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:43:04 AM

Well, with their work on rolling back emissions standards, maybe the administration just figures that it's safer for us to be unable to breathe at all.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#251339: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:46:26 AM

The Iran thing has me wondering. Among other things, if The US needs a nation, an ally to democracy, that has the proverbial Kryptonite Ring? A diplomatic Sword of Damocles to keep its delusions of world police in line and prevent it from trying to take things from other nations by force (like Oil)?

(The analogy puts NATO and the UN as the Justice League, to continue the DC analogy)

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 7th 2018 at 11:53:16 AM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#251340: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:46:30 AM

If a Democrat is elected how difficult would it be to reverse the asbestos thing?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251341: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:50:57 AM

[up][up]Impossible, the United States is just too strong militarily.

Unless we have some major international re-alignment the US is going to remain Hegemon for the foreseeable future, no delusions necessary.

Furthermore I don't want a check on our interventions, if military intervention is necessary then I want it to be on the table.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:50:55 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#251342: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:51:15 AM

[up][up]Easy- that's the reason Trump administration was able to do it in the first place, despite their obvious incompetence- creating a reversing this sort of thing is as simple as putting somebody with the right mindset in charge.

Edited by Gilphon on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:53:05 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251343: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:52:07 AM

[up][up] Well, we can lose that hegemon status if we dismantle our own institutions from within, demoralize and neglect our military, abandon the rule of law, and tear our own economy down. *cough*

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251344: Aug 7th 2018 at 11:54:13 AM

[up]Fair enough, still it has lasted for two years of Trump and I doubt another two years will kill it. But yes if we get a competent Republican President with a Republican Congress then we could plausibly see our hegemony take some major hits.

[up][up]Yeah, thankfully the Republicans really haven't gotten that much legislation done. So much of the Trump administration's actions can undone relatively easily, unfortunately the judicial appointments are another matter.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:55:10 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#251345: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:08:53 PM

Realistically, is there anything that can remove a justice or judicial appointment?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251346: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:09:25 PM

Federal judges have been impeached before, but it's very rare. Only one Supreme Court justice has ever been impeached: Samuel Chase, and he was acquitted.

Local judges are often elected and thus don't serve life terms, so the same issues don't apply.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 7th 2018 at 3:12:41 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251347: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:13:29 PM

Frankly with the Supreme Court it would be a far better for the Democrats to just skip the middle man and pack the courts, either we get a friendly supreme court that allows us to implement some much needed change or the court loses its power thus removing one more enemy of progress.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#251348: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:14:24 PM

The Court hasn't always been an enemy of progress. And frankly I don't expect Democrats to have a bullet-proof supermajority in Congress any time soon no matter how well 2020 turns out.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#251349: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:15:31 PM

Sometimes state judges who run for election get voted out of office, like the judge who let Brock Turner (the Stanford rapist) off with a couple months.

But that’s very rare. I think Roy Moore got booted from the Alabama Supreme Court, if I remember correctly. But federal judges? Even more rare. I’m not sure it’s ever happened. Which is a huge problem, as Mitch Mc Connell deliberately held an enormous number of federal court seats open. That’s going to screw over our democracy for decades. Here’s a fun statistic:

The popular vote for president and the Electoral College results have twice in the last five presidential elections been out of alignment. And the Democratic presidential nominee has won the popular vote in six of the last seven presidential elections (from 1992 to 2016), yet Republican presidents have appointed a majority of the sitting justices.

That’s not at all terrifying. Everything’s fine. It’s fine.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#251350: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:16:25 PM

What the US did or didn't do regarding the Iran is currently important because, for the record, so far the allies of the US always got along when it came to contain the Iran. But I don't think that they will this time around, even if it leads to a rift between the EU and the US. It's for one a matter of principle. The Iran hasn't broken the deal, so the EU has no reason to pull out, and it sure as hell won't allow the US to bully it to do so. Partly it is a matter of peace. Iran will only get more dangerous if we keep cornering the country. They have oil, they have for a religious dictatorship a fairly educated population, and if they really feel that they have no choice they will lash out.

And frankly, if the US hadn't intervened in Iran and it would have managed to establish a proper democracy, we now could have a staunch ally in the region, one from which the concept of democracy and free thinking could have spread.

[up] That's because the Republicans kept cheating and the Democrats kept botching up their own nominations.

Edited by Swanpride on Aug 7th 2018 at 12:17:14 PM


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