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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251051: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:06:40 AM

Trump's supporters won't abandon him if the economy tanks. They'll just blame the Democrats.

The options are not just “vote for him” or “vote for a Democrat”, they can always just stay home.

Unless you’re suggesting that an economic downturn won’t impact his base’s turnout, which if so is ridiculously counterfactual.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 3rd 2018 at 1:06:15 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#251053: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:29:37 AM

The Orange House is saying that it should be the ALCU's responsibility to connect detained children and deported parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/03/politics/trump-administration-aclu-deported-parents/index.html

At least they are offering information but what legal logic is at play here? Oh wait, I almost forgot who I was talking about for a second...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#251054: Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:43:36 AM

[up][up]I’m not sure if Rubio’s bill should taken as a woefully misguided/stupid attempt to actually help people, or as a genuinely insidious attempt to make Social Security more insolvent and easier to get rid of.

I mean, the idea of using Social Security to cover leave actually makes some sense (I believe that is partially how it works in other countries), but without some new revenue it will almost certainly tank Social Security faster.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#251056: Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:10:34 AM

I found this analysis piece on the bigger implications of the Manafort trial to be really interesting. I know it's about Lobbiests, and goes into the more technical side of he investigation, but it's worth a read.

Mueller’s Digging Exposes Culture of Foreign Lobbying and Its Big Paydays [1]

WASHINGTON — The mandate given to Robert S. Mueller III and his team was broad: to investigate not just Russian election interference but also any related crimes they might unearth. So when this group of seasoned prosecutors began rooting around Washington, they pounced on a ripe target — lobbyists taking millions of dollars from foreign governments.

At the trial of Paul Manafort, an unflattering picture has emerged of lawyers, lobbyists and consultants from both political parties winning big paydays for work on behalf of a Kremlin-aligned former Ukrainian strongman. Some spent the money on cars and homes, prosecutors said, and a jacket made of ostrich for Mr. Manafort.

The vigor with which Mr. Mueller has investigated the flows of foreign money from Ukraine, Turkey and other countries into Washington could be as much a part of his legacy as special counsel as whatever he discovers about possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign or presidential obstruction of justice.

The Manafort case is part of a broader inquiry into the lucrative work done on behalf of the former president of Ukraine, Viktor F. Yanukovych, and Mr. Mueller has handed some elements of the investigation to prosecutors in Manhattan. Beyond the special counsel’s office, the Justice Department has also recently been pursuing foreign influence cases with greater urgency.

All of this has prompted lobbyists to hunt for advice about how to comply with laws governing that sphere, long viewed as toothless. “The phone rings much more often with this question than it did two years ago,” said Tom Spulak, a partner at the King & Spalding law firm who advises on lobbying compliance.

Over the past year, Mr. Mueller and the Justice Department have pursued numerous cases both under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, and related to foreign influence operations more broadly. FARA prosecutions were once almost unheard-of, according to a Justice Department inspector general report: For nearly a half-century, from 1966 until 2015, the department pursued only seven.

In addition to Mr. Manafort, the recent cases include the special counsel’s indictments against Russians who disseminated stolen information and used disinformation to influence how Americans perceived the candidates in the 2016 presidential election. Also among them is the complaint against Maria Butina, the Russian accused of acting as a foreign agent and plotting to gain Republican support for pro-Russia policies.

Even the case against Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, included allegations that he had lied to investigators about lobbying work he did on behalf of the Turkish government.

Taken together, the cases shine a light on foreign influence operations that have become deeply embedded in Washington, and the culture of lobbyists who get rich helping their foreign clients affect how laws and policies are made in the capital.

To be sure, federal law enforcement officials took a more aggressive stance on foreign influence before the appointment of Mr. Mueller. They increased enforcement of FARA as part of a move to do “everything we could to meet the counterintelligence mission of the Justice Department,” said David Laufman, the former chief of the department’s counterintelligence and export control section who oversaw the enforcement surge.

The department began to write more aggressively worded letters to lobbyists seeking information about their work. After receiving letters of inquiry from the Justice Department last year, four Russian news media companies, including RIA Global and RTTV America, have registered as agents of a foreign principal under FARA. In retaliation, Russia passed a law to designate international news media companies as foreign agents.

But because of the intense attention it has drawn, Mr. Mueller’s investigation shined a spotlight on the waves of foreign money washing through American politics in a way that the other Justice Department efforts never could.

The number of new primary FARA registrations grew to 102 in 2017 from 69 in 2016, and was on pace to rise again in 2018, according to figures from the Justice Department published by the law firm Holland & Knight.

The first days of Mr. Manafort’s trial offered exhibit after exhibit of this lavish world, beginning with his extravagant purchases, including cars, Persian rugs and expensive clothes.

It also revealed bipartisan largess. One 2014 email presented in court on Tuesday showed the Democratic consultant Thomas A. Devine proposing a “day rate” of $10,000 to do work in Ukraine on behalf of Mr. Yanukovych, the Russia-aligned former president who was a longtime client of Mr. Manafort.

“You would need to make the travel arrangements, and transfer the $50G before the trip,” he wrote to Rick Gates, Mr. Manafort’s partner for the Ukraine work. “If you want me to come on Monday and leave Thursday it would be $40G.”

Mr. Devine, who is known as Tad, went on to become the chief strategist for the presidential campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, a self-proclaimed democratic socialist.

In addition to the investigations of Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates, who pleaded guilty in February to numerous financial crimes and became a cooperating witness in the special counsel investigation, Mr. Mueller’s team pursued three other investigations into lawyers and lobbyists who did work in Ukraine.

The cases involve Gregory B. Craig, who served as the White House counsel under President Barack Obama before leaving to work for the law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom; Tony Podesta, an influential Washington lobbyist whose brother, John D. Podesta, was chairman of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign; and former Representative Vin Weber, Republican of Minnesota, who joined the lobbying firm Mercury Public Affairs after leaving Congress.

None have been charged with any crimes. Mr. Mueller’s referral of those cases several months ago to federal prosecutors in New York was revealed in news reports on Tuesday.

Whereas the public once thought of the Justice Department’s counterintelligence mission as primarily trying to catch foreign spies seeking to obtain government secrets, the department has made clear in a recent cybercrimes report and congressional testimony that influence has become as great a threat.

The government’s case against Ms. Butina, which was not brought under FARA, could be a template for future prosecutions, said a former Justice Department official, who predicted they could spread to influence peddling from Eastern Europe and China as well as Russia.

Ms. Butina was charged with acting as a Russian agent, a more serious crime than a typical FARA violation. The charge allowed prosecutors to impanel a grand jury and issue subpoenas to subjects of investigations — tools not available in most FARA inquiries. Bills to give the Justice Department the power to compel records in FARA cases are sitting in Congress but have gained little traction.

The lobbying industry last faced intense scrutiny after the Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff was caught up in a sprawling corruption and bribery investigation. He went to jail in 2006 for fraud. That case put a temporary chill on the industry, and some Washington lobbyists made up for lost business with foreign clients trying to exert influence on American politicians.

The Justice Department will continue to pursue foreign influence operations inside the United States, the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, vowed last month.

Russian schemes to influence the presidential election, he said, are “just one tree in a growing forest.”

Edited by megaeliz on Aug 3rd 2018 at 2:17:10 PM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#251057: Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:20:52 AM

The options are not just “vote for him” or “vote for a Democrat”, they can always just stay home.

Unless you’re suggesting that an economic downturn won’t impact his base’s turnout, which if so is ridiculously counterfactual.

I'm not talking about the Republican base. I'm talking about the Trump supporters — that hardcore sub-culture that is responsible for making it look like 80-90% of Republicans now support Trump, when the evidence is that moderate Republicans are quietly slipping away to either identify as Independent or stay behind closed doors, resulting in that increasing percentage of 'Republican' support being less and less representative of the actual Republican base.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251058: Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:28:11 AM

[up]Then why mention them as if they're significant? Of course they will never turn on him but that group is far too niche to be electorally significant, what matters is Republican+Democratic+Independent turnout.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#251059: Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:41:53 AM

Piggy-backing on what I'd mentioned on the last page, the Penn-Wharton Budget Model shows that indexing the Capital Gains Tax to inflation would result in 97.5% of the benefit going to the top 10%, and of that, a whopping 63.1% would go to the top 0.1% of Americans. That is fucking insane.

As for Kane's win - well, he seems to have a firmer grasp than most people, given his official statement when announcing his candidacy. “Now this is the part where many politicians will stand up here and tell you all the grandiose things that they’re going to do just by snapping their fingers. I’m not going to do that because that would be unrealistic and disingenuous.” He spoke of reducing taxes and non-essential government spending as well as job creation. Even if I disagree with his rhetoric, he seems level-headed enough, despite the in-ring persona.

For those interested, here's his victory speech.

Edited by ironballs16 on Aug 3rd 2018 at 12:39:54 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#251060: Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:52:46 AM

[up][up]I made no reference in that post to whether I felt they were significant or insignificant. I think you read more into my sentence than was there.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#251061: Aug 3rd 2018 at 3:14:54 PM

" Trump's supporters won't abandon him if the economy tanks. They'll just blame the Democrats. "

If my experience with suporter of populism is something, they will shirnk, most of them will adapt to the economic tanking whatever they can while trying to avoid the elephant in the room, other will just try to see fox news to easier their fears unti they grow sick of it(and it will happen, belive me) and a few other will clam to whatever little victory they can in order to said trump isnt bad.

But at best, they will get disapoint with trump, not change side, but just waiting for the next donald,kinda like unicorn brigade.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#251062: Aug 3rd 2018 at 3:18:51 PM

My experience of this is somewhat similar.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#251063: Aug 3rd 2018 at 3:29:56 PM

I would love it if people got sick of Fox News. I find their pundits and shows insufferably smug. A lot of conservative pundits seem to be like that, actually.

Do not obey in advance.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#251064: Aug 3rd 2018 at 3:32:51 PM

I see Trump's been having fun at the rallies again. By the sounds of it, he whipped the crowd into a fairly ugly mood against the press pit last night (he really didn't like the press coverage of the North Korea talks).

Oh, and he ranted about the British Queen. Well, really, he was ranting about the 'fake' and 'disgusting' media. Because live television showed that he kept the Queen waiting for 12 minutes when he met her, which is a diplomatic faux pas (but, hey, Putin kept her waiting for a similar length of time in 2003).

The Queen, who is well-versed in how the media tends to interpret every little twitch in a famous person's body language, started looking at her watch. On live TV. Of course the media noticed.

Trump set the record straight last night. He wasn't late. He was early. The Queen was the one who kept him waiting.

As some people have pointed out — the UK was in a blistering heat wave at the time; whether you're a Republican or a Monarchist, Trump left a 92 year old woman standing in the heat (and all those Beefeaters).

Trump claims Queen Elizabeth kept him waiting

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 3rd 2018 at 11:38:17 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#251065: Aug 3rd 2018 at 3:35:47 PM

Jesus Christ.

Do not obey in advance.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#251067: Aug 3rd 2018 at 4:05:21 PM

[up][up]If I know something, is that fox news and other outlier will start less news and more morality plays in order to boost the base and quiet their anxiaty when thing start going bad.

In fact, is already happeing in their facebook page, more often than not they just put quote of whatever conservative said something snapping at liberals, is clearly they are playing to their public.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#251068: Aug 3rd 2018 at 5:34:23 PM

[up][up][up] Not a surprise. Trump kind of defines Evil Is Petty.

Trump delenda est
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#251070: Aug 3rd 2018 at 5:49:08 PM

[up]x7 Sadly, a few of its programs are still #1 in cable news ratings. I don't know how anybody could watch the entire two primetime hours of Fox News every night (Tucker, followed by Hannity). I see no appeal in those types of shows whatsoever, and I would be saying that if the shoe were on the other foot too (two hours of left-leaning hosts bashing Republicans). What a valuable waste of your precious free time: Watching shows that feed into hate.

An article I read a while back said that old people watching nothing but Fox News is a criminal waste of their retirement. No kidding.

Edited by speedyboris on Aug 3rd 2018 at 7:53:16 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#251071: Aug 3rd 2018 at 5:52:03 PM

Green Party eyes 2020 election while preparing for midterms.

God I despise the Green Party, they're just useful idiots for reactionaries and fascists.

Scum.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#251072: Aug 3rd 2018 at 6:19:14 PM

I was going to post Sarah Huckabee Sanders' meltdown but just saw this Attack of the Political Ad that really shows how far Trumpism fanaticism goes.

"Republican candidate for Florida governor Ron De Santis is a die-hard Trump supporter, and he wants to make absolutely sure that everyone on earth knows it. He’s so much of a Trump-lover that his new ad just features him creepily indoctrinating his own child into the same cult-like worship of Trump that De Santis shows each day."

I don't think there is any more that I can add to this except to say how atheists make the claim that trying to indoctrinate children into religion is tantement to child abuse, and I think that if that is true then this would also qualify.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251073: Aug 3rd 2018 at 6:22:04 PM

What happened with Huckbee Sanders?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#251074: Aug 3rd 2018 at 6:26:31 PM

[up][up]...HOW IS THAT AD REAL?

i'm tired, my friend
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#251075: Aug 3rd 2018 at 6:27:05 PM

Republicans. Need I say more?


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