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AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#250826: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:03:39 AM

Ron De Santis teaches his kids about Trump in campaign ad

You see kids, in a few years he might be dating you

Inter arma enim silent leges
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#250827: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:05:22 AM

Ruth Bader Ginsburg plans to stay on Supreme Court for at least five more years. Good, sounds like she realizes what retiring would mean. Hope she can hold out as long as she's able. And hopefully Trump is out of office by then.

Edited by speedyboris on Jul 31st 2018 at 12:09:46 PM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#250828: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:13:27 AM

[up][up][up]

The nearest I can figure, though, is that maybe the $2 trillion figure applies to what the growth would otherwise be - as in the amount spent on healthcare in the same period would otherwise be $34 trillion instead of $32?

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#250829: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:14:00 AM

@Dingo Walley 1: the takeaway is that it would decrease overall spending, not add 30 trillion to the deficit. That is how messed up our current healthcare systems are. That proposal would leave everyone covered and at least theoretically capable of affording all necessary medical procedures, so you can see why the reactionaries are spitting blood just thinking about it.

The actual issue not mentioned there is also a mark against the current system: it has become so grotesquely bloated that the Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries are employing tens of thousands of people doing unnecessary jobs that will be out of work if this ever comes to pass. A pittance compared to the net gain of universal coverage, but you can bet that argument will be front and center if the Democrats ever regain full control of the government.

[up]That. TL;DR This would constitute an overall decrease in government spending.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Jul 31st 2018 at 1:16:29 PM

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#250830: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:17:56 AM

If Thiel’s blood transfusion youth serum thing actually works, I say we just hook a spigot into some teenagers and have them follow her around.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#250831: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:20:05 AM

Can we please not pretend that that idea isn’t heinous?

Oh God! Natural light!
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#250832: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:22:23 AM

[up]x3+[up]x4 Oh, then that's way better then what I read it as. Then yeah, Medicare for all has my support.

Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#250833: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:22:30 AM

Don’t get me started on bloat. I work healthcare finance, and over the last five years we’ve gone from receiving 36% of what we bill from insurance companies to 32%. 68% of revenue is being written off, and it’s due to the weird hodge-lodge of contract rules where some programs pay a flat rate, some a percentage, etc. and it just leads to the most bizarre set of inflated costs to try and get the ones that pay a percent to make up for the increased loss from the ones that pay a flat rate.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#250834: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:24:25 AM

It puts the notion that billionaires are vampires and leeches, into a rather literal notion.

Inter arma enim silent leges
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250835: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:27:25 AM

My nightmare vision of the future consists of a world where Thiel's bloodsucking, Musk's robot cars, and Uber have joined forces, all news is from Zuckerberg's Facebook which is infested with Kremlin bots, and Trump is President for life — a life that is also extended thanks to Thiel. And Trump is using the blood of the immigrant children he took from parents.

Oh, and the Earth is a polluted wasteland being stripmined for resources while the super-rich spend vacations on Mars.

Edited by M84 on Aug 1st 2018 at 1:30:04 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250836: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:39:55 AM

[up] The last have of that seems especially likely at this point.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250837: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:56:37 AM

Vox has a good article on Sanders' Medicare For All Plan.

Bernie Sanders’s $32 trillion Medicare-for-all plan is actually kind of a bargain

I have to say reading that (and the Jacobin) article have firmly convinced me in favor of Medicare for All, and any Democratic candidate that doesn't support it (or a hybrid form of universal healthcare) isn't going to have my support in the primaries.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 31st 2018 at 1:56:26 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#250838: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:58:56 AM

Would it be work emphasizing that these findings came from a conservative funded study?

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250839: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:00:43 AM

[up] The problem with that is that the republicans are motivated primarily by their vile ideology, appealing to their greed isn't going to work.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#250840: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:05:00 AM

@3of4: American right-wing "secularism" is like the rest of the right wing: so far into Wonderland that they can easily believe six impossible, contradictory things before breakfast. It's how Silicon Valley librotarians and Deep South fundamentalists work on the same team, both worshipping Ayn Rand as a totem while completely blotting out everything she said that doesn't agree with their individual viewpoints.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#250841: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:28:31 AM

Ah, here's a clearer write-up courtesy of The Intercept - and yea, seems that it applies for the same time-span, meaning that the figure cited would actually be $2 Trillion higher without the Medicare for All idea being implemented.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250842: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:29:17 AM

Would it be work emphasizing that these findings came from a conservative funded study?

Absolutely, if we can emphasize that it’s supported by sources that are naturally skeptical of it instead of ideologues fudging the numbers then I think that message would be very practical.

The problem with that is that the republicans are motivated primarily by their vile ideology, appealing to their greed isn't going to work.

True but irrelevant, the fanatics will reject it on principle but we aren’t marketing to them anyway. What matters are the Democrats, Independents, and Moderate Republicans. They can be convinced through such tactics.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 31st 2018 at 2:29:01 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250843: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:31:15 AM

[up] You sure there are enough of them to overwhelm the vote of the fanatics?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250844: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:38:06 AM

[up]Um... of course? Republican voters IIRC consist of 30% of the population, even if all of them are 100% committed fanatics they're still outnumbered by Democrats and Independents.

There's a reason the Republican Party is so supportive of voter suppression and other undemocratic tactics, they know it's the only way they can have a stranglehold on power.

We lose when we don't get enough votes not because they overwhelm us.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 31st 2018 at 2:40:06 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#250845: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:34:52 PM

Trump is now echoing Rudy's early assessment that collusion isn't a crime (but only the Democrats do it anyway).
Well, it turns out that it's technically true, in that there's no actual crime in federal law that's named "collusion". However, IINM nobody other than laymen with little to no in-depth knowledge of the vast body of federal law said anything about charging Trump with "collusion".

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#250846: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:50:45 PM

Eh, the issue with Sander's plan was never if it might make sense - frankly, every form of proper healthcare coverage does for the US, because in the current system there is literally money sucked out of the system on so many places. The issue is that it isn't really realistic for the US. As the article alludes to, there are systemic challenges which are nearly impossible to overcome. Remember, health care for all isn't exactly a new idea, the US has tried to get there for decades. No, the issue was always if it is possible to just implement the plan all at once. And frankly, at least until a few years ago it just was a unrealistic proposal because the republicans would have hindered it at every turn. It would have never gotten off the ground. Which is exactly why Obama went this this step by step solution.

Frankly, the smart approach would be to continue improving "Obamacare" and everything else connected to it and then move it step by step towards something universal. Maybe not exactly like Bernie Sander's plan...but one shouldn't be too dogmatic about it. Various EU countries have different kind of coverage and different systems to pay for it, and they all work one way or another.

Just for the record...the ad really is real? It is really not some kind of spoof? Is stuff like this common in advertising for elections?

Edited by Swanpride on Jul 31st 2018 at 12:51:29 PM

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#250847: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:59:41 PM

[up] There's nothing that makes the US an impossible place to implement universal healthcare in, compared to Sweden or Canada, apart from the people trying to stop it. If the democrats control all 3 chambers in 2020, it's time to finally move forward with Medicare-for-All.

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250848: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:04:16 PM

[up]Exactly this, it may not have been viable in 2016 but 2020 will very likely be a very different scenario.

Everything is impossible until it suddenly isn't and Overton windows don't move themselves, we can and should try to get it implemented even if there are difficulties involved.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#250849: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:28:14 PM

Steve Bannon threatened Republicans who take Koch Brothers money: https://cnb.cx/2NV8N3F

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#250850: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:33:23 PM

So basically the entire party then?

"Yup. That tasted purple."

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