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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#250776: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:55:49 PM

I sometimes default to using male pronouns towards others as well.

Edited by BearyScary on Jul 30th 2018 at 8:55:45 AM

Do not obey in advance.
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#250777: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:46:39 PM

You would think Objectivism should have been already discredited as a ideology, and tbf, there is a lot of pushback against it

But then you see what’s out in real life of Objectivism supporters and shake your head. It’s like there’s no middle ground, because you have the firm believers and then the people who know what’s wrong with it and call it out.

Only books I’ve read were Anthem, and The Fountainhead. Anthem as a story is okay, and it probably helps you can twist the interpretations to go away from Objectivist whatever and make it generic individuality and authenticity in a stifling society.

Fountainhead less so. I remember thinking it was a cool story as a sophomore in high school, mostly for character exploration and some statements about art but then forgot about it until I spent more time online during later years and seeing the criticism of the stories, philosophy, and author and realizing wow, this person and what she came up with is pretty terrible.

Never read Atlas Shrugged, and I can see I didnt miss out on much and lol’d at shitposts about John Galt and that infamously winded speech. It’s funny to me, the title is actually kind of cool, shame it’s too connected with that crap.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#250778: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:52:20 PM

[up]The French translation is simply called la grève ("the strike", as in "on strike").

(Edit: misread your comment on the title)

Pronoun note: I tend to default to male too, doesn't help that my native language lacks neutral pronouns altogether.

Edited by Medinoc on Jul 30th 2018 at 8:52:58 PM

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#250779: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:54:28 PM

I've always defaulted to gender-neutral naturally. Though that was originally more out of personal anxiety than acknowledging any sexist undertones.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 30th 2018 at 1:54:30 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#250780: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:11:18 AM

You know...I used to by blissfully unaware of Aryn Rand. She just didn't play any role whatsoever in my education. The first time I learned about her was when someone complained about The Incredibles endorsing objectivism (it doesn't, btw, but that's another conversation). Ah, ignorance is a bliss.

Honestly, I don't get how anyone can take this drivel even serious.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250781: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:26:27 AM

Said drivel lets greedy selfish rich assholes pretend that their rapacious selfish greed is a noble thing. Much like the "Prosperity Gospel". If you don't know what that is...I envy you.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Raptorslash Since: Oct, 2010
#250782: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:27:40 AM

My understanding (speaking as an American) is that Ayn Rand is more-or-less an American phenemonon. I don't think she's as popular in, say, Europe.

Edited by Raptorslash on Jul 31st 2018 at 3:28:23 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#250783: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:30:23 AM

I read Anthem in school, and it's not nearly as wrong as some of the others I've heard about. It's a short story with a plot that is basically: "man and woman live in dictatorship. Man and woman escape and build a log cabin on a mountain somewhere and have lots of children and live full lives".

I remember thinking that it felt like an unfinished story, like they needed to go back and free all the other people who were slaves to the dictatorship, me not being aware that was entirely the point: that the main characters were the strong ones for escaping and fuck all those other weaklings.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250784: Jul 31st 2018 at 12:42:49 AM

A lot of what Ayn Rand wrote makes a lot more sense when you learn that she once idolized and sympathized with a child murderer, William Edward Hickman. This is the kind of human being Ayn Rand was.

Seriously, the more you learn about her, the more grotesque she and her "philosophy" (and by extension those who follow it) are.

Edited by M84 on Aug 1st 2018 at 3:43:27 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#250785: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:19:43 AM

am afraid to ask but...what is the Prosperity Gospel?

Yeah, as European, I also got the impression that Aryn Rand is mostly an American thing. But then, we tend to have a natural mistrust against any "philosophy" which casts certain people as "better" than others. It's the voice of experience speaking.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#250786: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:21:12 AM

[up] If I recall correctly, the short version basically is: The wealthier you are the more favoured by God you are.

It's a complete perversion of Jesus message, to say the least.

Wikipedia has a long article on it.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jul 31st 2018 at 10:23:58 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250787: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:50:02 AM

Rather than driving out the moneychangers with a cane, Prosperity Gospel Jesus would have charged them rent while driving out the poor people.

Edited by M84 on Jul 31st 2018 at 4:57:18 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#250788: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:55:14 AM

It's the kind of heresy that annoys even me, and I'm an atheist.

Edited by Kayeka on Jul 31st 2018 at 10:54:54 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250789: Jul 31st 2018 at 1:58:07 AM

I'm an atheist too and I feel much the same about this.

Edited by M84 on Jul 31st 2018 at 4:57:56 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#250790: Jul 31st 2018 at 2:01:08 AM

Doesn't Prosperity Gospel kind of grow from TULIP and predestination? I was under an impression that the "wealthy people are more religious and more favored by God" thing dates as far back as Jamestown.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#250791: Jul 31st 2018 at 2:05:01 AM

Calvinism has something similar IIRC, basically saying that if you meet success in life it's a possible sign you are among those predestined to be saved. Mind you, this was kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, as working hard to become successful was still the ideal.

Prosperity Gospel comes off as a highly oversimplified measure of faith, from a piece of theology that is pretty controversial anyway. Although further analysis might be better served in the religion thread.

Edited by TerminusEst on Jul 31st 2018 at 2:07:58 AM

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#250792: Jul 31st 2018 at 2:06:22 AM

[up] The whole predestination thing kinda doesn't mesh well with Christianity's message of salvation, though - because it basically says you're damned regardless of what you do because "destiny says so".

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#250793: Jul 31st 2018 at 2:09:33 AM

Well, "God is great". From what I understand, a "good" Protestant would work hard to achieve success and wealth which, in turn, speaks volumes of his adherence to the religious rules.

At some point that turned to "having money means you're successful", I feel, disregarding the whole hard work bit.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#250794: Jul 31st 2018 at 2:09:34 AM

[up]tbf it's only an escalation of the "you are a sinner from the get go, only through Christ can you receive salvation" the Catholic church uses to peddle

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#250795: Jul 31st 2018 at 3:17:02 AM

Well, there was a reason why a snowflake named Martin Luther felt the need to nail his unwanted, radical opinions on a church door, disrespecting a holy place in the process.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#250796: Jul 31st 2018 at 3:22:41 AM

"Why Calvinism is garbage" talk to the theology thread, please! grin

To be honest, America has a profusion of both secular and religious ideologies that amount to circling the wagons in the face of modernity. Prosperity gospel wasn't originally this; it was originally a con job from the '50s that ended up getting sucked into the Nixon Revolution's new coalition of deplorables.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#250797: Jul 31st 2018 at 3:42:37 AM

[up][up] That's actually apocryphal, he had it posted to the Church's Message Board, back then the version of publishing a paper.

[up]Tbf American modern 'secularism' is...strange.

Edited by 3of4 on Jul 31st 2018 at 12:46:32 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#250798: Jul 31st 2018 at 4:49:17 AM

Trump isn't very pleased with the Koch brothers, and the feeling is mutual.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/politics/trump-koch-brothers/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#250799: Jul 31st 2018 at 5:47:24 AM

@Pushover Media Critic: Actually at the end of Anthem the hero does state the intention of bringing some of the others out. Being a Randian hero the rescuees are limited to those he considers worthy but still.

There is a meme btw that Anthem is a sequel to Atlas Shrugged. Not in RL since Anthem was written and published first but in my head canon it's so.

Trump delenda est
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250800: Jul 31st 2018 at 6:24:18 AM

[up][up] Hopefully this slows down some of their goals.


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