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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250751: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:53:04 PM

Aaand i'm starting to panic again.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#250752: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:13:23 PM

I'm pretty sure the republicans would destroy the minimum wage, or even institute a victorian-style maximum wage, if they could. Wasn't there a shot-down bill in one of the flyover states that woulc've basically allowed Neo-Feudalism?

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#250753: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:16:02 PM

I'm pretty sure they would had tried to replace the minimum wage with a "working tax" if they would.

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#250754: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:16:45 PM

Which brings me back to my question ages ago; you kill off all the poor, who is going to do the work that everyone else refuses to do?

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250755: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:17:27 PM

The Koch brothers are both old so we could at least hope natural causes get them soon.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#250756: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:21:34 PM

Which brings me back to my question ages ago; you kill off all the poor, who is going to do the work that everyone else refuses to do?

I blame the influence of Ayn Rand on the Republican party. It's got the view the working class aren't the working class. They have the view the poor are active parasites on the rich and somehow the wealthy could do without them. There's only the people who deserve to be rich and the poor who drain the economy.

It's due to the extreme anti-communism/anti-Christianity of the work.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 30th 2018 at 6:25:25 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#250757: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:21:58 PM

Waiting for conservatives to die off doesn't work. Their children just pick up the torch.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#250758: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:26:54 PM

Waiting for conservatives to die off doesn't work. Their children just pick up the torch.

Ehhh, part of the issue is Donald Trump hasn't been replaced with his obnoxious children, it's the fact Donald Trump is still being an enormous asshole on the economy decades later.

His generation never let go of the reigns of power once it got them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250759: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:32:21 PM

Aaand i'm starting to panic again.

Don't, yes the tax news is bad but it doesn't erase the good (that the midterms are looking better and better).

Being concerned/bothered by the awfulness is perfectly reasonable but for your own sake if nothing else it's very important to keep in mind that things don't always need to be this bad and that other people are seeing the things the Republicans are doing. This ‘’can’’ get better.

Waiting for conservatives to die off doesn't work. Their children just pick up the torch.

That’s true.

But just because they get replacements does not mean that there are enough replacements to matter electorally.

I cannot emphasize enough that I’m not arguing that demographics are destiny or any foolishness like that but it would be a mistake to ignore the serious demographics problem they face, millennials (especially millenial women) have so far rejected them soundly and that is a very bad thing for them as the Boomers become increasingly less relevant electorally.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 30th 2018 at 9:34:26 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#250760: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:32:24 PM

I assume the robots would do all the work.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#250761: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:35:51 PM

I assume the robots would do all the work.

Objectivism appeals especially to Techbros for this because they assume they're the scientists who made it happen.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250762: Jul 30th 2018 at 6:36:42 PM

Which brings me back to my question ages ago; you kill off all the poor, who is going to do the work that everyone else refuses to do?

Bioshock once made this point. Granted, it was the villain saying this, but even villains have a point sometimes.

"These sad saps. They come to Rapture thinking they're gonna be captains of industry, but they all forget that somebody's gotta scrub the toilets. What an angle they gave me... I hand these mugs a cot and a bowl of soup, and they give me their lives. Who needs an army when I got Fontaine's Home for the Poor?"

[up] A major reason why I don't trust the Thiels, the Musks, and the Zuckerbergs of the world.

Edited by M84 on Jul 30th 2018 at 9:36:43 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#250763: Jul 30th 2018 at 7:11:06 PM

Fun filled fact but the audiobook for Bioshock the novel which details how everything went to shit (and is actually quite good) was narrated by the audiobook narrator of my Supervillainy Saga and Cthulhu Armageddon series: Jeffrey Kafer. He did a kind of iffy English accent but did a spot on Ryan.

https://www.audible.com/pd/Sci-Fi-Fantasy/Bioshock-Rapture-Audiobook/B008BV9TMK?qid=1533003261

I think the best part of Bioshock is that Andrew Ryan throws away his whole Objectivist free market philosophy whenever it's not working for him. Because it's all about HIM anymore and you can't have a philosophy of selfishness which you selflessly devote yourself to.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 30th 2018 at 7:18:01 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250764: Jul 30th 2018 at 7:43:17 PM

Here's an old article from seven years back about Ayn Rand and how her ideals ultimately clashed with reality.

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them

Rand also believed that the scientific consensus on the dangers of tobacco was a hoax. By 1974, the two-pack-a-day smoker, then 69, required surgery for lung cancer. And it was at that moment of vulnerability that she succumbed to the lure of collectivism.

Yep, Rand was one of those "screw experts who tell me things I don't like!" people.

Evva Joan Pryor, who had been a social worker in New York in the 1970s, was interviewed in 1998 by Scott Mc Connell, who was then the director of communications for the Ayn Rand Institute. In his book, 100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand, Mc Connell basically portrays Rand as first standing on principle, but then being mugged by reality. Stephens points to this exchange between Mc Connell and Pryor.

“She was coming to a point in her life where she was going to receive the very thing she didn’t like, which was Medicare and Social Security,” Pryor told Mc Connell. “I remember telling her that this was going to be difficult. For me to do my job she had to recognize that there were exceptions to her theory. So that started our political discussions. From there on – with gusto – we argued all the time.

The initial argument was on greed,” Pryor continued. “She had to see that there was such a thing as greed in this world. Doctors could cost an awful lot more money than books earn, and she could be totally wiped out by medical bills if she didn’t watch it. Since she had worked her entire life, and had paid into Social Security, she had a right to it. She didn’t feel that an individual should take help.”

She really was that willfully ignorant of how the real world works. And way too many people in power in the world use her writings as inspiration.

But at least she put up a fight before succumbing to the imperatives of the real world – one in which people get sick, and old, and many who are perfectly decent and hardworking don't end up being independently wealthy.

Reality Ensues hit her hard. She had to finally accept that she was living in the real world and not one of her own novels where a rapist asshole can get away with blowing up a housing project.

Yeah...I'm not a fan of Ayn Rand. I remember reading The Fountainhead in middle school. Looking back, it was bar none the most ridiculous immature schlock I read in my entire life.

Edited by M84 on Jul 30th 2018 at 10:46:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#250765: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:03:25 PM

Atlas Shrugged also brushed off the who is going to clean the toilets question with the completely naive view that whoever is at bottom is satisfied with the status quo under the reasoning that however is higher than they are are there through merit, so it is fair because they deserve it.

Never mind things like entitlement, inheritance, cheating, greed, envy and superiority complexes, completely dumping on the notion that a successful businessman would accept receiving a lesser job because a slightly more successful businessman earned his position.

Inter arma enim silent leges
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250766: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:25:27 PM

Honestly, I could probably fill an entire thread here based on why I think Ayn Rand is awful. It cannot be understated just how much damage her half-baked ideas have wrought.

Edited by M84 on Jul 30th 2018 at 11:25:30 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#250767: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:36:31 PM

I always felt that the best argument against an Objectivist was a punch in the face. I mean, since I don't agree that not using force to get what you want is a moral imperative in the first placenote , I'm obviously not going to find much value in Objectivism.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#250768: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:47:07 PM

It's effectively the anti-Christianity where the proud and wealthy inherit the Earth. It does away with the pretense many so-called conservatives have with their religion that preaches things they hate.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 30th 2018 at 8:48:57 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#250769: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:47:17 PM

I've been following Adam Lee's long form reviews of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. It's interesting to see just what Rand was proposing (without having to actually read her) and just how far away it is from what her modern followers espouse. Closer to feudalism than any sort of free market

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#250770: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:16:47 PM

I've made my thoughts on Rand and her philosophy quite clear in the past (on this thread, no less!). It amuses me that it failed her in the end and she went along with Social Security and the like.

I'm female, not male.

Do not obey in advance.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250771: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:22:01 PM

Ugh, even when I try to avoid making assumptions about other posters' genders, I still slip. My bad.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#250772: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:27:24 PM

[up]'They, Them, You, Your'. Took me years to retrain myself to be pronoun-neutral by default, and I still slip up sometimes. tongue

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Jul 30th 2018 at 12:27:13 PM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250773: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:28:47 PM

Ironic her work ended up influencing so many conservatives even when much of her philosophy had several things the conservatives didn't like (at least back then).

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#250774: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:40:42 PM

So how likely is it for the currently democrats in congress to keep their positions come the midterms?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#250775: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:42:31 PM

[up],[up][up] I try to stick with neutral ones, but often to slip into masculine if I don't know better, less out of assumption and more using my own as a default.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 30th 2018 at 10:44:36 AM


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