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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Rehabilitation is always preferable, but it has to take a back seat to pragmatic political considerations, especially when we're considering public figures or high profile cases. This is (or rather it should be) the price of being a public figure; you don't get second chances, privacy, or leniency.
So far the alt-right have overwhelmingly targeted left-leaning white men in this particular effort, I'm not sure why nor do I care to know why, but that's a distinct trend I've noticed. When it changes we can weigh our options and proceed from there.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:17:11 AM
And what I'm saying is that you're wrong.
Capitulating to the alt-right's impossibly high standards will inevitably hurt vulnerable minorities while harming the values we claim to support.
Furthermore I completely reject the idea that public figures should not get leniency or second chances, should there be high standards? Of course but that is not at-all the same thing as expecting ridiculous purity for people who aren't even politicians.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:15:54 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
The funny thing about politics is that you can get away with being a hypocrite if you play things right and aren't doing it frequently enough for people to catch on; just look at Trump and Sanders. When they start trying to pull this routine on people belonging to protected classes that we'd rather have stay where they are, that's when its time to draw a line in the sand and circle the wagons provided they aren't actually guilty of doing or saying something heinous.
Also the fact that this person isn't a politician means this is the perfect time to have absurdly high standards because of the low stakes for holding a witch trial to show the masses how principled you are (when in reality you are the exact opposite of principled). Had Al-Franken been a senator in a state with a Republican governor, we would have had no choice but to let his misdeeds slide and play damage control due to the catastrophic consequences of allowing said governor to appoint his replacement. As he was a senator in a blue state with a Democrat governor, making a very public showing of ostracizing him from the party was the prudent move given the media attention.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:30:07 AM
My biggest problem with the Gunn fiasco is that Disney isn't being the least bit consistent about this because Johnny fucking Depp still has a contract with them.
I'd mention him too but at least I've heard that Lasseter will be dropped come December
Edited by Pachylad on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:22:13 PM
In the case of Trump, I think it's more that the people holding him up and keeping him in power don't care what he did because he's useful to them where he is.
I definitely remember him using allegations against Bill Clinton to attack Hillary, to the point of bringing Bill's accusers to at least one debate.
Edited by Raptorslash on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:24:37 AM
"It's Okay If You're a Republican"
It doesn't matter if a Republican does any of the stuff the alt-right is using to smear others right now. It doesn't matter that the Alt-Right does any of the stuff it's using to smear others right now. Those others are "The Other" and are thus less than them and should be hurt by any and all means necessary.
Ok Capsase, why exactly is it that the alt-right accusations matter but the defense of his cast members and the 150,000+ petition don't matter?
Because you seem to be acting as if this was some large scale organic controversy, it's not. It's the alt-right digging up dirt on someone and successfully attack them. All your talk of perceived hypocrisy hurting the left is unsubstantiated and frankly bizarre when the previous facts are kept in mind.
If there were some massive social movement to call for his removal you might have a point, but there isn't. Quite the opposite.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:30:56 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
It matters because the alt-right managed to generate large amounts of media attention through this scheme; the ideal solution to this sort of smear campaign is to defuse them before they get going by preventing the media from even covering it since hypocrisy doesn't actually matter if the general public never gets wind of it, but once a story like this blows up you more or less have to offer up a scapegoat to save face if that's a viable option.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:34:13 AM
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Sure and when a smear campaign is met with a mass outcry in-favor of the person being smeared then your solution is simply capitulation and thus demonstrates that smears work and should be used in the future.
There is strong support for Gunn and frankly I don't see why you're so set on surrendering before the fight has even begun.
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Since they fired him because he was offensive then yes it's hypocritical to have actual sexual abusers on the payroll, just because their base motivations are pure in an amoral way doesn't mean they can't be hypocrites too.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:36:30 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangSo, basically, Cap, you're not arguing that this is the right moral move, but rather that it is the right tactical move because it appears to be the right moral move at first glance?
Because, frankly, fuck that noise. And really the media frenzy here is 'Disney unfairly fires a guy', not 'a guy made off-colour jokes a few years ago', so that argument doesn't even hold water in this case.
Edited by Gilphon on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:39:48 AM
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Okay, you actually do have a point, is there actual polling about what people think about this, because that's an important consideration. I've been looking into the details of this story and initially I thought it was another case like the forbidden hashtag where the alt-right managed to whip up a lynch mob that extended far beyond the political right, but it looks like that might not necessarily be the case here.
Unless you find being a Doomed Moral Victor appealing, pragmatism must always be put before morality on matters of significant consequence. But yes, I'm seeing the point about the media cycle in question, qualitatively it seems different from my initial impression.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:49:52 AM
Ah I see, your arguments makes much more sense now.
Then yes I agree that if the alt-right has the public on their side then a strong argument can be made that it's probably a good idea to cut our losses and have the person resign. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be happening for this case.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 26th 2018 at 6:48:30 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangEdited by Eschaton on Jul 26th 2018 at 3:57:23 AM
Hey, if you want to see how your county/precinct voted in 2016, check it out here.
This is probably the most detailed electoral map I've ever seen.
My county is straight trash confirmed.
New Survey coming this weekend!![]()
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Concord/Bedford/Lexington/Acton/Carlisle area of Middlesex County in MA is deep Clinton country. The only place with >30% Trump is Hanscom AFB. Only places in Middlesex with Trump majorities are shitholes like Billerica, Dracut, Wilmington, and Tewkesbury.
This map confirms a lot of my local knowledge — Saugus, Lynnfield, and Rowley on the North Shore being Trump precincts lines up neatly with what I know of the people there.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jul 26th 2018 at 7:17:33 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."![]()
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I mean, in this very topic, someone said the fact he left them up is a sign he stands by them.
Personally, if anything, I would consider it more moral to leave them up (again, this is long after he initially apologized for them and said he regretted them) as not hiding the past. That should be commendable.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Regarding the accusations of Gunn.
The issue here is twofold. Those with no shame themselves are able to spin it more effectively as a Moral Event Horizon, even when the accused found their redemption and the accusers are actually the ones likely to be beyond that line. The second is that...well they lack shame in general, or have misplaced shame (for an example. Donald Trump often reacts poorly to bad publicity because of the fact that he got bad publicity. Not because he committed a crime or acted maliciously).
If a person seems like he apologizes for betting caught for committing a crime rather than the crime itself, then his shame is at being caught, all that does is teach him to not get caught next time, not to ensure there wouldn't be a next time.
Just my 2c on this.
Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jul 26th 2018 at 4:15:29 AM

Also your acting like the high turn over would benefit minorities, when a quick bit of logic would say they would be the first ones targeted by the alt-right for smearing.
And if you think we are pure snowflakes who never do any thing wrong, just because we are women, or not white... that is very very wrong, there is just as much dirt to dig up.
The high turn over rate, and emboldenment would do nothing but cause more hurt.