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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
You can make the argument that the Democratic Party is more rightwing than other countries' major leftwing parties and that the GOP is more rightwing than other countries' major rightwing parties (and even that is debatable in some cases), but you can't really argue that the Democratic Party is as rightwing as other countries' rightwing parties.
If you compare the Democratic Party to other "conservative" parties worldwide, I get the feeling that the Democratic Party would prove to be more progressive.
Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:46:47 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedIt's worth noting that democrats are pretty progressive on things like social issues, pot legalization, etc.
I myself actually couldn't quite bring myself to vote for the Democrats, despite my disgust with Trump (a decision I do regret in hindsight. Though, in my defense, I didn't vote for Trump either).
Leviticus 19:34The Democrats are mostly in line with other Western center and center-left parties socially, though some move more slowly given that the US is in some ways the most socially conservative state in the West. The political environment restrains what would otherwise be a socially progressive agenda on their part, outliers notwithstanding.
Economically, the Democrats are more moderate, and again are constrained by their local political context (including a decentralized form of federalism and immense military spending), but don't quite line up with conservative parties elsewhere. If they could institute some form of universal healthcare, progressive taxation, etc, they most likely would. But look what happened when they used a Republican idea, which was primarily a huge subsidy to the insurance industry, to lower healthcare prices....
The Republicans, in many other Western contexts, are right-wing to the point that (particularly on welfare issues) they likely wouldn't be viable in some places without moderating their rhetoric and being less obvious in their intentions. In the age of Trump, at least a few wings of the GOP are flat out far-right, some of them would easily run afoul of hate speech laws.
Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jul 24th 2018 at 12:37:35 PM
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.And in Flat "What" news, according to an internal email, Trump caused "a bit of a stir" on Air Force One when he found Melania's tv tuned into CNN
.
The validity of calling the Democrats "conservative" really depends on what definition and baseline you're using. If we're using the term to mean "in favour of maintaining the status quo", they're more conservative than the modern Republican party, but still not terribly conservative on an absolute scale
What The Rise Of Kamala Harris Tells Us About The Democratic Party
Basically, while some party leaders might have wanted to step back on "Identity politics", Democratic voters by and large are even more energized about them now thanks to Trump.
Of course, we have to remenber that left dosent mean progresive(really, it something some troper here need to remenber), at least here in latin america, much of left party are pretty damn conservative and in case of my country venezuela is damn near regresive, that is why I call chavismo "communist republicans".
"I really hope so, there's only so much the country can take before it becomes a dictatorship or collases on itself like tbe Soviet Union. "
Meh, there is something to bear here again as someone who lives in a totalitarian country: it takes a while for a dictatorship to sunder a country into REALLY shitty level and that is when they have near total control of everything, so far Trump and GOP inhability to acomplish anything need to be mantain before the wave push the GOP out of the house.
Now, there is a warning here and is about polarization becaue bewtween obama, hilary and trump buissness is seen the American publica is near a clivaje(Im maybe getting the word wrong), which means a moment were the public opinion is split in two with not way of recuperation, I feel you guys already go there.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"https://twitter.com/MarchForTruth17/status/1021927648543555585?s=19
Exclusive: CNN obtains secret Trump-Cohen tape
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-tape/index.html
The recording offers the public a glimpse at the confidential discussions between Trump and Cohen, and it confirms the man who now occupies the Oval Office had contemporaneous knowledge of a proposal to buy the rights to the story of Karen McDougal, a woman who has alleged she had an extramarital affair with Trump about a decade ago.
Cohen told Trump about his plans to set up a company and finance the purchase of the rights from American Media, which publishes the National Enquirer. The recording captures what appears to be a routine business conversation of several matters on their agenda. The audio is muddled and the meaning of Trump's use of the word "cash" is disputed by the two sides.
"I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David," Cohen said in the recording, likely a reference to American Media head David Pecker.
When financing comes up again later in the conversation, Trump interrupts Cohen asking, "What financing?" according to the recording. When Cohen tells Trump, "We'll have to pay," Trump is heard saying "pay with cash" but the audio is muddled and it's unclear whether he suggests paying with cash or not paying. Cohen says, "no, no" but it is not clear what is said next.
Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:28:57 AM
Robots aside, that's literally the Buchanan plan: The use of widespread state violence to suppress and enslave the people for the benefit of a wealthy oligarchy. This differs from the usual right-authoritarian playbook by throwing out the Bread and Circuses, because giving these to the masses would devalue the ability of the rich to respectively force people to work or starve and monetize all entertainment.
For a comparison, modern Russia (the current archetype of the right-wing dictatorship) has limited social welfare benefits - pensions for the elderly, unemployment and job training programs - that the Kochs consider anathema. And they have only a quarter of the prison population that the US does, while their population is slightly less than half. Vladimir Putin understands that the food must reach the table if he and his fellow oligarchs want to stay in power, and his dictatorship is based on a combination of generally widespread support and being able to count the votes and suppress dissent.
A Buchanan-style dictatorship would force the elderly to either rely on their children and what personal savings they could muster, or else literally work until they can't anymore, then starve to death in the streets. They would employ widespread prison labor targeting vulnerable sectors of the population and literally working them to death. And they would respond to attempts at democratic government change with massive force. The primary examples I can think of are the Operation Condor dictatorships in South America - the fact that these were backed by the US' anticommunist program is not a coincidence.
You don't have to give that much credit. It's the heart of Atlas Shrugged. Rand promised it and many conservatives read it as their bible.
The rich people will eventually destroy the poor people but also the people who are sympathetic to them. SOMEHOW it will not result in the rich people tilling the soil in agony.
Objectivism is the reverse of Christianity.
Blessed are the rich and proud for they will inherit the Earth.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 25th 2018 at 1:50:12 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.And one can bet it will be more like Rapture then any current nation. A civilization brought to ruin by people who think you have to buy your right to win.
Edited by MorningStar1337 on Jul 25th 2018 at 1:35:07 AM
There's something satanically wrong about people who can't even imagine wanting people to scrub the toilets around and hating the fact they have to pay them for it.
I blame some unconscious "desire to own slaves and hating slaves" gene.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I'm pretty certain that its less a gene and more a meme. (God how I loathe to use Dawkins theory for this.) The Lost Cause narrative had permeated US southern society and made a certain group think they are entitled to ownership of others, so they try to do everything in their power to get that so-called "birthright".
I have a theory it's a Double Think actually and a kind of internal disconnect. America is a Christian society in origin and a lot of people also revere capitalism to a divine degree (The American Dream). The idea of the poor and their existence challenges them that they should do something about it.
But to do something about it would mean they have to not luxuriate in their wealth.
So they get angry at the existence of the poor reminding them they should do something about it.
A professor likened it to the origin of misogyny for a lot of people. They resent women because they make them feel things and the idea they should look after a partner and respect them versus only their own needs.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.New Emails Show Push by Trump Officials to Add Citizenship Question to Census
:
In May 2017, the emails show, President Trump’s chief strategist at the time, Steve Bannon, requested that Commerce Secretary Wilbur L. Ross “talk to someone about the census.” A month later, Mr. Ross began demanding that the question be added, and a top aide pledged to press Justice Department officials to say they needed better citizenship data for law enforcement.
The emails, which were disclosed late Monday, cast further doubt on the administration’s initial explanation that the citizenship question was added at the request of the Justice Department, which officials said needed the data to enforce the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
That account has steadily crumbled as more evidence has been unearthed in a lawsuit by 17 states and others challenging the citizenship question.
The question is the focus of a furious battle between the administration and an array of critics who fear asking it would render the 2020 tally so inaccurate as to be unreliable. Those critics, which include civil liberties groups, local governments and business interests, say that large numbers of both legal and undocumented immigrants will refuse to fill out census forms that demand that they disclose their citizenship status.
America being both steeped in Christian discourse (which isn't foundational — most Founders were Deist or had a healthy skepticism of theology) and in rapacious greed (which is foundational, since the Founders were country aristocrats and mostly slaveowners) isn't an internal disconnect. Christianity has always proved willing to sell out for the purpose of political expediency, going back to the Roman era. Saying "this isn't how a true Christian acts" is actually sort of useless. Be able to adapt and worm one's way into the court, so to speak, has been in the Christian playbook since the 4th Century.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jul 25th 2018 at 9:23:53 AM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."![]()
Quite, which is why secularism is logically in the Christian interest. It's the only way that the faith can stay at-least somewhat pure and untainted. Though of course that logic only applies to people who aren't theocrats.
(which coincidentally was my logic for supporting secularism when I was a believer)
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 25th 2018 at 10:05:11 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

At the very least, I have a hard time believing that the Democratic Party is comparable to the Tories.
Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:15:55 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised