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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#250051: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:10:56 AM

With a trump controlled Supreme Court impeachment may not be an option. Kavanaugh is on record saying that presidents should not be investigated.

That’s why it’s a big deal.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#250052: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:12:13 AM

The Supreme Court has no say on how an impeachment trial is handled. Only the Chief Justice (John G. Roberts) has since they preside over the Senate during the impeachment trial.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#250053: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:13:06 AM

That’s comforting. But Kavanugh would set numerous issues like gay rights labour rights and capital punishment back decades

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#250054: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:13:39 AM

Things to remember here:

Kavanaugh would be one of nine. He would not be in control of the court

Even if Kavanaugh gets shot down that doesn't mean that the next candidate will be better

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250055: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:14:34 AM

Remember: Trump will always find someone that makes us miss the predecessor.

I wouldn't be surprised if by some chance Kavanaugh is not confirmed, he picks Arpaio or something.

Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:15:16 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#250056: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:17:12 AM

We do need to be more hyperpartisan now, we can't negotiate with most republicans. They do not want compromise, they want domination. So we need to blanket oppose the policies of the GOP except in cases where we cannot.

Honestly, what the Democrats need right now is a charismatic leader who inspires the kind of devotion Trump does. Someone who would say things like "The GOP doesn't actually give a shit about veterans, cadet-bone spurs only says they do so they can look good, then they slash veterans benefits and let them die in the streets". If a Democratic senator said outrageous things against the GOP or basically talked like an average left-wing internet poster then it would help fight fire with fire.

It is a new world, and we need to counter the Alt-Right and GOP that loves them with someone who doesn't look "weak" in the eyes of the average voters.

Edited by Wildcard on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:19:36 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250057: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:22:16 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#250058: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:25:35 AM

Kavanaugh is on record saying that presidents should not be investigated.

He’s on record saying that he feels the president shouldn’t be investigated by law enforcement, he still holds that congress can investigate. Also his statements kinda indicate that he thinks that the president can be investigated and that the law needs to be changed, which means until such a change happens he should rule that such investigations are legitimate. Now he probably won’t, but him going against his own explicit past statements, so as to protect the president that appointed him from criminal charges, could be grounds to impeach him.

He’s bad, no two ways about it, but he’s equally bad if he get confirmed with 54 votes or with 50 votes.

Personally I’d love for Kavanaugh to not get confirmed, Trump to them pick Arpaio or Moore, the Dems to win the senate and the Dems to use the insane nominee as an excuse to keep the seat empty for 2 years.

Edited by Silasw on Jul 24th 2018 at 10:32:42 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#250059: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:25:50 AM

[up][up]Not clear if your talking to me. But I don't expect them to flip on him. I don't think it can be prevented as unfortunate as it is.

Edited by Wildcard on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:25:37 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250060: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:27:55 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#250061: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:30:47 AM

Yannow, I don't think that it is a good move to start talking about other tropers here. We've had too many issues with such derails.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250062: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:35:16 AM

[up][up][up]Yep. It's not realistic to expect them to flip on this. They are likely saying this in the hopes that this will get other Senators, Republican and Democratic alike, to offer concessions to their states in the future to sway them. But at the end of the day they will likely still vote in favor of Kavanaugh.

This would then be an argument against being hyperpartisan. If it's more or less inevitable that Kavanaugh will win, a Democratic Senator in a deeply Red state might as well confirm him rather than risk alienating their voters. They would have nothing to gain and everything to lose by voting No if there's no chance at stopping it.

And even if there is a fair chance those two really will flip, that would not be an argument for hyperpartisanship either. Getting those two to flip and defy their own party would likely require generous concessions on the Democratic Senators' part. That means a lot of reaching across the aisle and negotiation. The opposite of hyperpartisanship.

Politics, amirite?

Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:43:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#250063: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:52:11 AM

Eh not really. If they don't flip then at least make a show of opposing it until this Charismatic leadership happens. IMO, the general public needs someone to really around in the next two years to get behind a Democratic canidate who looks "Strong" next to Trump.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#250064: Jul 24th 2018 at 3:54:52 AM

Each Senator has to decide for themselves if making a symbolic resistance is worth potentially alienating their own voters or inflaming their opposition. I'm willing to cut Democratic Senators in deep Red states some more slack on this regard. At the very least, I'm not going to condemn Doug Jones as a spineless appeaser if he does end up voting for Kavanaugh.

And while the Democratic Party should field a solid candidate in 2020, I think we need to avoid falling into messianic politics.

Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 6:56:35 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#250065: Jul 24th 2018 at 4:15:54 AM

I don't think Doug Jones is a spineless appeaser. I agree with Democrats acting more Partisan, not everything that was said by people that expressed that sentiment.

Messianic politics are a problem, but if we are going to kneecap the competition from the GOP and their sloppy love affair with Trump, we probably need to use it.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250066: Jul 24th 2018 at 5:01:15 AM

That’s comforting. But Kavanugh would set numerous issues like gay rights labour rights and capital punishment back decades

Yes.

But his selection was more or less inevitable considering that the Dems don't control the Senate.

This is just an argument for court packing (which I enthusiastically support).

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#250067: Jul 24th 2018 at 6:07:26 AM

A bit late, perhaps:

(emphasis mine)

Dems aren’t as bad as trump but

Honestly, I think that about said it all right there about what to expect from ~Lord YAM's arguments.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 24th 2018 at 7:12:04 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#250068: Jul 24th 2018 at 6:12:59 AM

Yes. I couldn't agree more, it's like saying "I'm not racist but" the but immediately erases what was said before it.

And in this context that's not a good look.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#250069: Jul 24th 2018 at 6:17:32 AM

On hyperpartisanship: if you're worried about a repeat of 2016, I agree. Democrats should work together. No vanity candidates or spoilers. But opposing the Republicans on everything isn't hyperpartisanship, it's survival. The Republicans are compromised by foreign powers, and they're willing to drive this country off a cliff in the name of tax cuts, environmental destruction, and hurting women, non-white people, and anyone else who they don't like. ICE went from an unpleasant and evil organization to locking kids in cages and disappearing people. Voter suppression was held at bay by the federal government, and now the Republicans own the government. Unless the Republicans actually do something worth joining them on, we have to fight them on everything. I get that Manchin and Jones may have to vote with them on some things, but Kavanaugh shouldn't be one of them.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#250070: Jul 24th 2018 at 6:42:17 AM

My unpopular opinion is that the furthest right Republicans ideally should be no more righter than Joe Manchin.

New Survey coming this weekend!
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#250071: Jul 24th 2018 at 7:13:45 AM

So what's this I hear about Trump wanting to revoke security clearance from former intelligence officers? Apparently it's Trump being authoritarian again but I am unfamiliar with how this works. What exactly happens if former IC members no longer have their clearance?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#250072: Jul 24th 2018 at 7:17:55 AM

Sanders was one of only two people to vote against Russian sanctions and it's known that Kremlin bots supported the Bernie or Bust movement and Sanders in the primaries.

He's yet to issue a serious statement on it either.

He's made a statement on the Kremlin bots. He used it as an opportunity to stir up shit about Hillary Clinton. He seriously tried to deflect criticism away from himself by blaming Hillary for not catching Russia supporting him.

You may notice this as the exact same tactic that Trump uses frequently.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#250073: Jul 24th 2018 at 7:27:34 AM

[up][up] It’s just unbelievably petty. Those clearances aren’t rare, I believe a few million people have TS clearance. If there’s a security threat it certainly isn’t coming from those guys.

Having a clearance can help with a lot of government-adjacent jobs. The company I work for now requires at least a secret clearance for hiring, so most of the people who work here are ex-government in one way or another. Taking it away from those people doesn’t really hurt them unless they’re employed somewhere that needs a clearance, it’s just a ridiculous parting shot at them.

They should have sent a poet.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#250074: Jul 24th 2018 at 7:37:41 AM

I don't get the attempt to put Trump as any kind of Christian figure.
A lot of "Christians" put their white nationalism before their obedience to Jesus. Trump is the new messiah of white nationalism; ergo, Trump is "Christian," no matter how many porn stars he bangs or teenage models he gropes or cocaine he snorts.
Since both Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama are devout Christians I don't think that's really true.
I think that's why Le Garcon was using the Scare Quotes; but at the same time, the white nationalist Christians are the ones who like to declare that they're the One True Faith.
10,000 Pages!
I know, right? grin
no point exposing themselves if they can’t stop Kavanaugh, but no point voting against if he will pass anyway.
Voting against him as a candidate they believe to be unqualified does send a message. That is a point. They can make the Republicans fight amongst themselves and encourage the ones who also don't like Kavanaugh.
Personally I’d love for Kavanaugh to not get confirmed, Trump to them pick Arpaio or Moore, the Dems to win the senate and the Dems to use the insane nominee as an excuse to keep the seat empty for 2 years.
That sounds like it would lead to quite a few 4-4 tie decisions from SCOTUS, and isn't that bad for the long run?
If it's more or less inevitable that Kavanaugh will win, a Democratic Senator in a deeply Red state might as well confirm him rather than risk alienating their voters.
But ... are voters really going to change their minds about a senator over a SCOTUS pick? That didn't work against Republicans when they stonewalled Obama for the majority of a damn year over a seat.
The Republicans are compromised by foreign powers, and they're willing to drive this country off a cliff
I saw a meme of, "D stands for Democrat, R stands for Russian." evil grin

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#250075: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:21:05 AM

Just remember that when he found out Russian bots were using his campaign? Sanders did nothing about it. A volunteer for his campaign later informed the Clinton campaign and Sanders tried to claim credit for it later before he decided to go victim blaming with "well, why didn't the Clinton campaign do something about it?"

As far as Kavanaugh goes? The sad reality is this is all in the Republicans' court. I care far more about a Dem not being the decisive vote. As long as Manchin is waffling around until we know how many Republicans are on board?

Also...

Oh, look here.

Trump Administration releases numbers on family reunifications...over 400 parents have been deported without their children.


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