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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The problem with not being hyperpartisan is that the Republicans cannot be trusted to negotiate in good faith. They are hyperpartisan, they cannot be worked with, and they're not willing or able to take on the role of an honest conservative (that is, reminding progressives to proceed with caution and remember that you can't just rewrite reality by writing a law). So they have to be steamrolled by pure power of numbers.
Never mind that Sanders himself was prone to making the "economic anxiety" argument for Trump voters. Or the particularly stupid hardcore Sanders' supporters who thought compromising with the alt-right was an acceptable means of increasing the chance of getting single-payer healthcare. There's a reason Sanders' supporters have gained a reputation for being willing to compromise on civil rights (which they deride as "identity politics") if it means they can get their pet causes done.
This is simply Sanders' ploy to make himself look better at the expense of the Democratic Party (which he is still not a member of). He's trying to imply that the Democratic Party are a bunch of weak-willed compromising appeasers. Never mind that the Democratic Party has remained pretty firm when it comes to opposing Trump on most issues.
And that's not even getting into the increasingly plausible notion that he's a Kremlin asset or at least a useful idiot.
Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 5:15:48 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedIS Oklahoma going to be the next Red State to get fed up with extreme anti-tax positions?
But after Oklahoma City spent hundreds of millions of dollars building new parks, bicycle trails, elite recreational facilities and a soon-to-be-completed streetcar network, Swope thinks maybe the state government can learn something from the city’s former four-term mayor, Mick Cornett, a leading Republican candidate for governor.
“The whole city has been transformed,” said Swope, who lives in the suburbs but now travels into the city each weekend to new indoor tennis courts paid for by city taxpayers. “You get a lot of promises a lot of the time and nothing happens, but now there were a lot of promises and things happened.”
Even as Republican voters nationwide continue to lurch to the right, Swope’s assessment of Cornett reflects a surprising trend in Oklahoma politics this year: The pro-government Republican is making a comeback, as GOP voters at least in some places reject hard-line anti-tax policies.
After years of upheaval in state government, including chronic budget shortfalls and this year’s teacher walkout over low pay, Oklahoma Republicans veered toward moderation when they selected two candidates from the state’s urban centers — Cornett and Tulsa businessman Kevin Stitt — to advance to an Aug. 28 runoff.
...
The primary attracted more than 450,000 Republican voters — nearly double the turnout from four years ago — as Oklahoma also decided a state referendum to legalize medical marijuana. It passed with 56 percent of the vote, even though a coalition of religious conservatives and local sheriffs vigorously opposed it.
GOP primary voters also ousted two Tulsa-area state legislators who voted against tax hikes to fund teacher pay raises. Seven other anti-tax GOP legislators were forced into runoffs against more moderate challengers.
The dynamic in Oklahoma echoes ongoing GOP battles in neighboring Kansas, another heavily Republican state where conservatives have faced backlash over their refusal to raise taxes.
Dems aren’t as bad as trump but in some regards (support of Israel, using drone warfare) they’ve fallen short.
And regardless of his motives the fact remains that hyperconservative republicans won’t be won over with logic.
Still there’s a test coming up. Doug Jones said he may consider voting for kavanaugh. If he does than yes he’s a spineless appeaser.
Honestly there’s a lot to disagree about Bernie but kremlin assett? That’s not plausible at all so much as an attempt to make him satan
Edited by LordYAM on Jul 24th 2018 at 2:19:50 AM
See, this right here is a problem. You're seriously going to call a Democratic Senator from a very red state like Alabama a "spineless appeaser" for this. That's completely ignoring political reality.
And you might want to be careful about that "support of Israel" thing. You're trying to say that it's wrong for some Democratic Congresspeople to support Israel?
And way to ignore all of the things that make Sanders look suspicious.
Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 5:22:55 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedConsidering the damage kavanaugh could do and the fact that most republicans (barring MAYBE two) are gonna conform him voting him in would cause more harm than any benefits gained.
If even one day flips kavanaugh gets on and that’s gonna be a disaster for civil rights gay rights labour rights criminal justice.....
So yes I will absolutely consider kavanaugh spineless if he votes for kavanaugh.
Considering that Israel repeatedly acts in bad faith, that their leader is a racist psycho who wants lebensraum and that 83% of all Israelis were a ok with civilians being shot yes. I do have a problem. At this point Israel is a generation away from committing genocide so supporting Israel is basically saying your okay with likud’s actions.
Chuck Schumer blatantly ignored that Israel’s settlement withdrawal was a hollow sham and that Israel’s camp David offer was piffling. And he isn’t the only one. Barbara Boxer also held an improntou session to keep the brother of a Palestinian kid who was violently beaten by the Israeli cops from talking about it and ignored that when Mohammed khdeir was burned alive the police continued to harass the family long after evidence emerged pointing to other suspects
And how is sanders a spy?
Edited by LordYAM on Jul 24th 2018 at 2:32:46 AM
Sanders was one of only two people to vote against Russian sanctions and it's known that Kremlin bots supported the Bernie or Bust movement and Sanders in the primaries.
He's yet to issue a serious statement on it either.
And I was going to say something because personally I too believe that American support of the current Israeli government needs to be seriously reconsidered but given the content of your actual complaints against Israel I think it's pretty safe to say you're not exactly coming at this from a very good looking angle.
Edited by LeGarcon on Jul 24th 2018 at 5:41:16 AM
Oh really when?
Aren't you the one who claimed that the GOP was beyond compromising with them? And yet you seriously think that two GOP senators will flip on this.
You seem to have more faith in the GOP than you do the Democratic Party in this situation.
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If you seriously think they will flip on this and give up an even stronger Supreme Court majority...clearly you have more faith in the GOP than I do here.
Edited by M84 on Jul 24th 2018 at 5:53:33 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedThose two were pro choice and are from the northeast. And two flipping is more likely than ten
As stands no. Most republicans aren’t reasonable and have shown that repeatedly. A few may show bouts of sanity (One republican voted against the tax cuts). But if there is to be any chance of beating kavanaugh there can be no democrats who flip. Hopefully Jones will vote with the party and shoot kavanaugh down
In any case voting for kavanaugh is voting to give trumps treason a pass
Edited by LordYAM on Jul 24th 2018 at 2:58:02 AM
You argue for increased partisanship. But at the same time you take it almost as a given that a couple GOP senators will be reasonable in this particular instance. Are you sure you aren't just looking for an excuse to piss on the Democratic Party?
Have you even stopped to consider that getting those two Senators to flip would also require compromise and negotation on the part of the Democratic Senators? That's how politics works.
Disgusted, but not surprisedHe is however pushing a bill in Congress explicitly stating that the senate believes the finding of the intelligence community and putting in place things to protect Muller. Sanders is certainly a useful idiot at times and his isolationism is something Putin supports, but the relationship is far from reciprocal.
It’s also worth noting that Russian bots also ‘supported’ Black Lives Matter, Russian bot support doesn’t make one compromised, just likely to cause upheaval, which can at times be a good thing.
Edit: First Alaska is in the North-west not north-east, second Jones isn’t an idiot and senators don’t vote anonymously, the moderate Democrats will probably vote the same way as the more reasonable Republicans, no point exposing themselves if they can’t stop Kavanaugh, but no point voting against if he will pass anyway.
Edited by Silasw on Jul 24th 2018 at 10:00:46 AM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranOh look the hollar button has a shinny new graphics, I like it.
To reiterate my edit, Jones will not vote for Kavanaugh if voting against would stop Kavanaugh, but it’s not spineless to vote for him if he’d succeed anyway, it’s good politics.
Senators don’t vote in a vacuum, the ‘middle’ block (the Dems in deep red states alongside Collins and Murkowski) are likely to all vote the same way, either for or against.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI fail to see how a 50-49 confirmation vote does the democrats anymore good than a 53-44 vote, either way we lose, the second way some senators may survivie to vote to impeach Trump later down the line.
Edited by Silasw on Jul 24th 2018 at 10:11:11 AM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

We tried negotiating though for years. What did it get? When the other side has no intention of playing fair what else is there?