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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#184279: Apr 22nd 2017 at 10:11:32 AM

¬¬

Come on.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#184280: Apr 22nd 2017 at 10:16:56 AM

Sorry, Google brought up an page for the acronym where the most likely answer is Reservations, Understandings and Declarations. I'll see what else I can find.

edited 22nd Apr '17 10:19:36 AM by MorningStar1337

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#184281: Apr 22nd 2017 at 10:22:19 AM

[up]That seems like it makes sense for this context. Thanks.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#184282: Apr 22nd 2017 at 10:36:13 AM

Apologies, I was away.

  • Reservations: "we're agreeing to this treaty except for this part"
  • Understandings: "We know the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination says any disparate impact, but we understand it to mean any deliberate disparate impact, like our laws say"; and
  • Declarations: not actually defined in international law and can be anything that a state can get away with (usually just a version of understandings though).
In other words, reservation: part one isn't agreeing to; understanding: part one agrees to the extent that it means what one says it does; and declaration: an explanation (usually for political effect).

edited 22nd Apr '17 11:06:27 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#184283: Apr 22nd 2017 at 11:02:36 AM

[up]Thanks.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#184284: Apr 22nd 2017 at 1:09:30 PM

"During the past ten years, I have observed that Democrats are actually growing afraid of Republicans. In a quirky and flawed, but insightful, little book, "Democracy and Populism: Fear and Hatred," John Lukacs concludes that the left fears, the right hates."

So far I think the article is right and this is were the whole "Dems as establishment" is true, the republicans have become a political cult and the Dems have played to much old politics to get that. So far the republicans have kick themselves more that any dems action so far.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#184285: Apr 22nd 2017 at 2:44:34 PM

Going by an "anonymous" top White House official (yeah, right, see my emphasis below and guess who it is), they're looking forward to the shutdown.

Next Saturday, April 29th, is President Trump’s hundredth day in office, a historical marker used by the press to assess a new President’s progress since the first term of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. F.D.R. was grappling with the Great Depression, and he had a pliant Congress that would have passed almost anything he proposed. Presidents since then have often struggled to meet the expectations of the hundred-day report card but generally can point to a list of major legislative accomplishments. Trump does not have such a list. At the same time, the Trump White House is facing a much more consequential deadline, one that will help define his first months in office and perhaps his first term: absent a spending deal with Democrats and Republicans in Congress, next Saturday the government will shut down.

While the potential for a government shutdown has been overshadowed by other events—Syria, North Korea, the attempted repeal of Obamacare—the Trump White House is suddenly seized with the issue. “Next week is going to have quite high drama,” a top White House official, who sounded excited by the coming clash, told me. “It’s going to be action-packed. This one is not getting as much attention, but, trust me, it’s going to be the battle of the titans. And the great irony here is that the call for the government shutdown will come on—guess what?—the hundredth day. If you pitched this in a studio, they would say, ‘Get out of here, it’s too ridiculous.’ This is going to be a big one.”

The last government shutdown was in October, 2013, and was widely blamed on conservative Republicans in the House, with a major assist from Senator Ted Cruz, who demanded that Obamacare had to be defunded, a ludicrous strategy given that Barack Obama was President. Congress failed to pass the necessary legislation, and the government closed for two weeks before Republicans came back to the table. At the time, many predicted that the tactic would have dire political consequences for the G.O.P., but the following year the Party expanded its majority in the House and took over the Senate. Republican leaders have prevented their right wing from forcing shutdowns in the years since, but one lesson from 2013 is that the threat of a government shutdown is a powerful way to press for concessions without paying too high a political price.

I'd say to Pass the Popcorn, but this is way too serious for that.

edited 22nd Apr '17 2:47:24 PM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#184286: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:12:04 PM

Am I missing something? I honestly don't get how a government shutdown on the hundredth day can possibly be spun into good PR for the Trump administration. How are they going to pin this on the Democrats when the GOP controls both houses of Congress? Isn't this just going to further the impression since the Obamacare repeal fiasco that Trump is too incompetent to even get his own party in line? Nevermind the fact that the budget bill he's trying to pass is a bold-faced betrayal of his promise that US citizens won't pay for his dang wall.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#184287: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:15:23 PM

They're hoping Democrats fold to pass whatever the GOP wants and they can spin that into a win.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#184288: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:16:04 PM

[up][up]Spinning it as why "small government" is a moral necessity?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#184289: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:18:52 PM

[up][up] they have a goddamn majority in congress, a shutdown shouldn't be happening. I wouldn't be shocked if the dumbasses that voted for trump ate the democrat blaming nonsense right up.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#184290: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:23:49 PM

[up][up] They could only do that if they're trying to tell Trump that the wall is a bad idea, which they aren't; The Republican Mainstream is only small government when they aren't in control, and are clamoring to keep Trump's supporters happy, and fully support the wall. The Democrats are against the Wall, but they have never claimed to be for shrinking Government (save for one or two less influential members). The Tea Party is the only group that actually wants to Shrink the Government, but even they are willing to build the stupid Wall if other things (like entitlements) are cut in the spending bill.

If anything, this move will kill the "Shrink the Government" Political movements for a long time, something Trump might actively be wanting to do.

[up] Considering Trump's most recent moves, that group is shrinking quite rapidly.

edited 22nd Apr '17 3:25:55 PM by DingoWalley1

Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#184291: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:28:54 PM

If there is a government shutdown it won't be because of the congress. President Trump promised to not sign the budget bill (or whatever) if they didn't include the things It wanted.

It wants them included (like the funding of the wall) as to not look weak, but the Republicans know that what It's asking is stupid and they won't add it to the budget for fear of losing the support of the people and making things worse. They know, especially after what happened in Georgia recently, that even with a majority in both houses, the democrats are still a threat if not a bigger one than before by being the minority party: everything that happens, good or bad, is on the Republicans.

So, if Trump doesn't sign the bill (or whatever, I'm not expert on the details), the Republicans would need to convince some Democrats to support them and override the President's "veto", like they did with the whole suing Saudi Arabia thing.

That's why the GOP needs the Democrats, because they fear Trump will keep Its promise to force the government shutdown.

But I hope most Democrats will let them drown on their own. They either take a stand against and Trump and go ahead with the budget without adding the things It wants, even at the risk of the shutdown; or they give in and add what It wants to keep the government "working" even if that could enrage many, MANY people.

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#184292: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:39:23 PM

I'll be very unimpressed with the Democrats if they capitulate to such a pathetically hollow threat. It's like a bratty kid holding his breath until he gets what he wants, except here you'd be just fine with the "kid" suffocating to death.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#184293: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:41:40 PM

[up]Seriously. I really hope they aren't weak enough to fold, the GOP are in power and should be responsible for their actions. And the Democrats should make sure people understand that this is all GOP incompetence.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#184294: Apr 22nd 2017 at 3:46:53 PM

If It keeps its promise to not sign the funding bill, then the Democrats will eventually have to unite forces with the GOP to undo the "veto". Remember that the government is the biggest provider of jobs and millions and millions of people would be affected by a government shutdown, not just Trump (if this can even get past Its teflon coating).

However, they need to take advantage of the power this gives them and try to get as many "compromises" out of the GOP as possible.

Like a promise that this won't happen under president Pence next year winkwinknudgenudge.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#184296: Apr 22nd 2017 at 4:12:32 PM

He's going full Joseph Stalin.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#184297: Apr 22nd 2017 at 4:16:20 PM

Stalin supressed dissent to keep political power. Trump wants to suppress protesters because he literally can't bear to hear anything negative about himself. You're giving Trump too much credit.

edited 22nd Apr '17 4:37:20 PM by megaeliz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#184298: Apr 22nd 2017 at 4:19:59 PM

Not a chance they'll win.

edited 22nd Apr '17 4:20:18 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#184299: Apr 22nd 2017 at 4:28:29 PM

Go on, keep trying to poke the bear that is the American people with that stick. I'm sure everything will go your way.

Do not obey in advance.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#184300: Apr 22nd 2017 at 4:48:48 PM

I wonder if Trump's advisers or whoever is leading this nonsense is forgetting the old line about Awakening the Sleeping Giant.


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