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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#184076: Apr 20th 2017 at 10:57:16 PM

The only thing Trump can do at his disposal is simply bluffing in foreign policy and that's that.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#184077: Apr 20th 2017 at 11:59:20 PM

@Fighteer: Um...I don't know, that sounds uncomfortably close to victim blaming, if you ask me. Personally, I would just leave things as they are and not try to get in any jabs at Sarah Palin's expense - at least, not with a subject like this.

Oh God! Natural light!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#184079: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:30:23 AM

So apparently, racism did played a part in the election. I'm becoming more wary of Americans nowadays just still have faith for their goodness to come out. Still, this just a sample of people instead of all Americans so let's wait and see.

https://www.good.is/articles/trump-racism-win?utm_content=inf_10_81_2&utm_source=TSE&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=pd&tse_id=INF_e4a317a025ed11e7ab1b4bd69f1788b7

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184080: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:48:51 AM

[up] It doesn't necessarily mean most Americans are racists. It just means that most Trump voters were probably at least a little racist.

I mean, they did vote for a guy who ran on a platform with "fuck minorities" policies such as the border wall and bringing back stop&search. Who spent the last few years cheerfully spreading birtherism.

edited 21st Apr '17 1:49:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#184081: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:55:14 AM

[up] Still, what bothers me the most is that most people think that's America's true colors, my parent even think they were all secretly racist which allowed the victory.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184082: Apr 21st 2017 at 1:59:46 AM

[up] America's not as racist as your parents and others might fear...but it's more racist than many of us wanted to believe.

I think the problem is that many of us believed the fight for Civil Rights was something you could win for good, as opposed to a neverending struggle.

edited 21st Apr '17 2:03:14 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#184083: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:07:43 AM

Seems like Krugman was right in his psephology.

Something I wonder is whether this actually changed the outcome of the election. Obama - without question not a darling of racists - did win 2012 after all, and some analysts (including the 538 folks if memory serves) think that voters who went for Obama in 2012 but for the evil dog in 2016 did swing the election in such places as Florida and Michigan. So it may be that Trump's base is largely racist but that the election was decided by others.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#184084: Apr 21st 2017 at 2:23:33 AM

[up][up]Yeah...some men refuse to accept changes in the society, hence the ongoing fighting.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184085: Apr 21st 2017 at 3:41:19 AM

Something I wonder is whether this actually changed the outcome of the election. Obama - without question not a darling of racists - did win 2012 after all, and some analysts (including the 538 folks if memory serves) think that voters who went for Obama in 2012 but for the evil dog in 2016 did swing the election in such places as Florida and Michigan. So it may be that Trump's base is largely racist but that the election was decided by others.

This was it exactly.

Disillusionment with Obama is one of the big factors that swung it to Trump.

Obama raised hopes and he dashed them hard. Yes, he made progress but you know there was the way he handled Wall Street, the continuing loss of their jobs, the realization that he swindled them, public radio pointing blame at him and the erosion of their lives.

I mean some of them are racists but even racists can have legitimate grievances about how they system is treating them.

The Tea Party along with being a racist backlash was also a backlash against a rigged government funded by the same people who was rigging the government. They were duped again and some of them are just figuring out.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#184086: Apr 21st 2017 at 5:12:06 AM

On the Phoenix article (the New Scientist does love exploring scientists who end up in a field that can be connected to their name!), I have vulcanologists in my family, so I might find out what her scientific credentials are like.

[up]I warned a lot of Americans I know at the time Obama first ran for presidency that Americans were putting him on such a high pedestal it would be humanly impossible for Obama to do anything other than disappoint expectations - even if he went down as the greatest president in history; the expectations of him were ridiculous even if all levels of government were Democrat.

What I warned them about was something we'd seen happen with Thatcher. Her unexpected elevation to prime minister initially had people enthusiastically saying doors were opening for women in politics, this was good for women in politics, etc. By the time Thatcher was forced out, the general agreement was that she'd put back female opportunities at high levels of government by decades. May is being viewed in the same way, and - in fact - as part of the problem with women at the highest levels of government that Thatcher left behind.

I was very uneasy with the high expectations being placed on Obama solely because he was being viewed as the 'African-American President'. The danger was a backlash that hurt ethnic minorities in politics for years to come.

That's the real swing we've witnessed - a swing from the highest of expectations (perceptions of Obama) to the lowest of expectations (Trump).

In some ways, this might actually help ethnic minorities in politics in the long-run. The need to galvanise against Trump is immediate and crosses many divisions of society. People across the spectrum recognise the need to become politically active to combat what's happened in the 2016 election.

We didn't have that in the UK, we had a low-education white male with banking connections come in to replace Thatcher as the 'compromise' candidate (and therefore beat all the low expectations of him with some genuine wisdom and competence that, while underrated and mocked at the time, have been proven sound by the hand of history). The need to politically shake up the electorate and make them active in politics didn't happen, and the British electorate continued its sleep-walk through history.

So, while on one hand I expected a backlash against Obama at the end of his presidency (not one like this, however), the backlash has been so openly awful and incompetent that it may (hopefully!!) benefit the US in the long-run, even if it doesn't feel like that's the case right now.

edited 21st Apr '17 5:26:38 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#184087: Apr 21st 2017 at 6:14:32 AM

I've also seen another explanation: That both Obama and Trump did work to appeal to working class people, with the auto bailout and the anti-trade stance as examples. Allegedly Hillary did not (or less) and thus that class of voters deserted her. Not just white working class, Trump carried some majority Hispanic counties (Yuma County, Wikipedia discussed this point a little in their article on it) in Arizona for the same reason (although it was still a minority of Hispanic voters).

As an aside, I read an article by Krugman on coal mining and some other type of jobs and why they receive so much attention. His ideas are that these jobs have so much attention because a) it's easy to create enemy images (environmentalists and trade respectively) to rally them against and b) they are mostly performed by white people.

That last point seems relevant especially considering that farm workers - typically immigrants or Latinos - receive far less attention despite their importance (to the point that some rural Republicans are fretting over the effects of an immigration crackdown, as was discussed a while ago here) in agricultural areas which are often Republican leaning.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#184088: Apr 21st 2017 at 6:34:53 AM

Just a thought, but the statistics don't necessarily mean that former Obama voters switched to Trump. Some may have and the papers love those kinds of case studies, but we have no idea how big a number that was. States flipping doesn't mean the specific voters changed their minds.
Tis equally plausible that a critical number of Obama voters stayed home, while Trump turned out a new class of voters. And the high expectations and the less than utopian results probably had everything to do with it.

edited 21st Apr '17 6:35:38 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#184089: Apr 21st 2017 at 6:37:05 AM

White House sidewalk to be closed to public permanently

The U.S. Secret Service said it would end public access to a sidewalk along the south fence of the White House beginning on Wednesday night.

The sidewalk has been closed nightly from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. since 2015 and will now be off-limits around the clock, the Secret Service said in a statement.

The closure will "lessen the possibility of individuals illegally accessing the White House grounds," Secret Service Communications Director Cathy Milhoan said.

In March, a man scaled a fence east of the White House at night and was on the property's grounds for 16 minutes before being detained. He never entered the White House, the Secret Service said.

President Donald Trump was inside the residence at the time of the March 10 incident.

The intrusion was the latest in a series of breaches at the White House in recent years. Security has been boosted, including the installation in 2015 of sharp spikes on top of the black iron fence that circles the 18-acre (7-hectare) property.

Blocking use of the south fence sidewalk will not obstruct the public's ability to view or photograph the White House and its grounds, the Secret Service said, adding no additional "physical" barriers would be installed.

The same restrictions are in place on the north fence of the White House grounds, according to the Secret Service.

... Paranoid much, Cheeto Benito?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184090: Apr 21st 2017 at 6:38:57 AM

[up] He's yet another strongman who is actually a Weak-Willed Dirty Coward at heart.

Bone-spurs my ass.

edited 21st Apr '17 6:39:42 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#184091: Apr 21st 2017 at 6:56:04 AM

@Karkat: I'm not blaming Palin for any sexual harassment targeted at her. That's unequivocally wrong no matter what. But she willingly went to work for Fox News, despite its long, storied history of misogyny, so she could find a platform to spout her inane drivel. If I recall, part of said drivel was pooh-poohing the idea of unequal treatment of women. Thus, she cannot claim to be an innocent victim.

"Oh, gosh, I had no idea that lions were predators. I thought they were cute little fuzzy animals that roared a lot, and so that's why I posed my children with their cubs for pictures!" "You host a wildlife documentary show."

Edit: Or maybe a better analogy is a drug dealer getting upset when their children get hooked on drugs.

At a certain point, one must concede that natural selection will occur.

edited 21st Apr '17 7:34:47 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#184092: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:10:55 AM

Obama raised hopes and he dashed them hard. Yes, he made progress but you know there was the way he handled Wall Street, the continuing loss of their jobs, the realization that he swindled them, public radio pointing blame at him and the erosion of their lives. I mean some of them are racists but even racists can have legitimate grievances about how they system is treating them. The Tea Party along with being a racist backlash was also a backlash against a rigged government funded by the same people who was rigging the government. They were duped again and some of them are just figuring out.

You don't get to smack away helping hands, vote in the people who victimize you and claim you're the wronged party. The 'erosion of their jobs' is utterly self inflicted at this point.

And look, turns out voting your whiteness over your class identity has consequences.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#184093: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:17:39 AM

I'd celebrate authorities finally going after Assange if it weren't so comically self-serving and hypocritical. The same people calling for his arrest now were gleefully cheering him on when he was releasing damaging material about Clinton. But how dare he expose the dirty secrets of the Trump administration?

Has Assange/Wikileaks done anything like that? I haven't heard shit from them except them popping up to voice their support for the white supremacists.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#184094: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:25:56 AM

I don't think Assange has done anything in the last few months. It might just be Trump being paranoid.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#184095: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:33:46 AM

Hmm. I suppose the leak of CIA methodology a few months ago wasn't really "anti-Trump".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#184096: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:34:43 AM

Ont he other hand, there hasn't been any recent news about Vault 7, has there?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#184097: Apr 21st 2017 at 7:55:05 AM

Mad Skillz: I can't help but wonder if what you're writing is a description of the blindly ignorant belief system of the people you're talking about or your actual beliefs. Because if it's the latter, it would go a long way to explaining your apologia for the unicorn brigade.

Here's the thing, and we've said it time and time again. The white working class has been brainwashed for decades to believe that Democrats are the party of elitism, taking away their self-reliance and freedom while showering benefits on minorities. This despite the fact that Democratic policies have benefited them in many, many ways and Republican policies have objectively harmed them.

Everything your little diatribe ascribes to Obama is properly directed at "establishment" Republicans, who have made it their sole purpose in government to drain the poor to the benefit of the rich while convincing the poor it's good for them. No one person, even someone as skilled and passionate as Obama, can change that completely in a mere eight years, and especially not when the very same people whom he's trying to help are desperately, violently opposed to him for utterly illogical reasons.

We cannot continue to productively debate if one side of the debate reflexively denies reality. This is true whether that side is on the left or the right.

edited 21st Apr '17 7:56:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#184099: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:08:17 AM

Unless I missed something, we have no evidence that

The white working class has been brainwashed for decades to believe that Democrats are the party of elitism, taking away their self-reliance and freedom while showering benefits on minorities
applies to all members of that social group. Maybe most but not all.

Which is part of the reason why I made that post in the first place - I wanted to see if we have a detailed breakdown on the issue rather than generalizations.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#184100: Apr 21st 2017 at 8:12:27 AM

[up][up][up] Obama was by no means a bad President, but in the grand scheme of things he wasn't a truly exceptional one either in terms of job performance. Comfortably above average is where I'd place him, and where the scholarly consensus seems to be tending towards, a significant improvement over his immediate predecessor and successor, but still lacking in some crucial regards. Congressional democrats and party leadership on the other hand is very deserving of criticism for their conduct during the Obama presidency, particularly early on when there was a democratic super-majority and thus theoretically an opportunity for far more extensive reform than later on.

edited 21st Apr '17 8:17:40 AM by CaptainCapsase


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