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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183876: Apr 20th 2017 at 3:41:53 AM

[up] Long story short, Mattis has held a bit of a grudge against Iran for decades.

Disgusted, but not surprised
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#183877: Apr 20th 2017 at 4:14:43 AM

[up] The Republican Party has held a grudge against Iran since the 80's, largely because they had the nerve to overthrow the sock puppet government.

They were a part of the American empire. This cannot stand!

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#183878: Apr 20th 2017 at 4:37:51 AM

[up] Let me guess, their Puppet King was installed during the Cold War?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183879: Apr 20th 2017 at 4:46:25 AM

Yup. Well, puppet Shah, but yes. Replacing an elected leader no less.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#183880: Apr 20th 2017 at 4:53:37 AM

A puppet who turned out to be not so much of a puppet. Then again quite a few of the royalists viciously hate the US for overthrowing the Shah so....eh.

edited 20th Apr '17 4:54:12 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#183881: Apr 20th 2017 at 5:34:48 AM

So, we had someone ask if Colbert would do a thing for O'Reilly getting sacked, and that if he did a "pretty much his old character but Writing Around Trademarks" I'd post it. Here it is.

Edit: Since I'm here, Trevor Noah eviscerates O'Reilly.

edited 20th Apr '17 6:00:33 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#183882: Apr 20th 2017 at 5:39:49 AM

[up][up] Thing is, the US didn't overthrew the Shah - they and the UK facilitated his return to power by backing a coup against the democratically elected government Iran had at the time because they dared to want control over their oil back.

What they did, though, was standing by when the inevitable revolution happened - probably because the US government figured that continuing to prop the guy up wasn't worth the hassle.

In short: The US didn't overthrew the Shah - but they basically abandoned him when it was convenient.

edited 20th Apr '17 5:41:19 AM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#183883: Apr 20th 2017 at 5:43:23 AM

State Department is this era's red-headed stepchild.
Crazy, offhand thought: Could that be partly because State was Clinton's ballywick?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183884: Apr 20th 2017 at 5:59:21 AM

[up][up] How ineffectual does a puppet ruler have to be for their string pullers to think "Man, the oil is just not worth it"?

edited 20th Apr '17 5:59:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#183885: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:03:18 AM

Incompetent enough that they cause a huge popular revolution that unites both Islamists and Communists.

My Church of England vicar remembers pre-revolution Iran and has commented to me that it was desperately in need of change.

edited 20th Apr '17 6:03:37 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183886: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:03:30 AM

[up][up][up]Or because State doesn't align with Trump's policy goals, hence why its being understaffed and Tillerson has less policy influence than Ribbentrop.

edited 20th Apr '17 6:03:45 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183887: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:05:16 AM

[up][up] Yep, that'll do it.

"Yeah, they're a bunch of dirty heathens/fanatics...but fuck this guy!"

edited 20th Apr '17 6:05:42 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#183888: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:11:33 AM

At that point, I also think Operation Ajax was already public knowledge. Politicians apparently care about their public image sometimes?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#183889: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:14:38 AM

[up][up] And it bears to mention again: The US (and the UK) overthrew a democratic government to put a hated monarchy back in charge after said monarchy was overthrown in earlier revolution (that led to the democratic government).

Honestly, my suspicion is that the only reason why some US politicians decry Iran as a source of terror while being buddy-buddy with the Saudis is because Iran didn't play ball with them. And who can blame the Iranians for that?

edited 20th Apr '17 6:15:06 AM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183890: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:29:42 AM

[up] Standard US foreign policy doctrine (and in fact the general pattern of behavior of Great Powers like Russia, China, France, and even Germany to some extent towards weaker countries within their reach) would suggest that's 100% the case; countries which defy the United States in a meaningful way are made examples of (hit with crippling sanctions, isolated, and frequently invaded) to prevent a hypothetical domino effect, those that capitulate and come forwards to "kiss the ring" are treated magnanimously with no regards for outstanding human rights issues or civil liberties, assuming public opinion permits it of course.

edited 20th Apr '17 6:38:24 AM by CaptainCapsase

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#183891: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:42:29 AM

That's no idle suspicion that's the honest truth. Hell, saying the Sauds "play ball" is a serious misrepresentation in and of itself.

Also, the Sixth District Fight is going on w/o a pause.
No let up: A new volley of attack ads aims for Ossoff in Georgia 6th
Democrats roar back on air with new pro-Ossoff blitz
If you've the means please do give Ossoff some extra support. (Tis not like you have to live in the state to make calls/donate/ask other people to donate.) As for the real progressive thing, besides the fact that he's running in Georgia, the middle of the road establishment thing is tailor made for that area. (Hence why his opposition is Handel and not a tea partier or an open Trumpist). Yet Ossoff still managed to wrangle half the vote while openly running on retaining the ACA and checking Trump. Do not forget incumbent advantage. Whoever wins wil probably have the seat locked for 30+ years.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#183892: Apr 20th 2017 at 6:51:10 AM

For anybody who might be curious, a report on a Town Hall my local congressman, Raul Labrador (R), had last night. I didn't go. Mostly because I hadn't known about it, and it was my D&D night.

Marathon in Meridian: Rep. Labrador tells town hall, ‘We’re going to disagree’

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article145631354.html

edited 20th Apr '17 6:51:27 AM by sgamer82

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#183893: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:05:16 AM

Regarding Iran:

While I'm aware of Ajax and the other shenanigans that happened, many Iranians (at least here) who left Iran after the Revolution despise the US for what they see as an active attempt to overthrow their Shah. Doing nothing is an action after all. Touchy subject to a friend of mine.

The Pahlavi dynasty is still central to quite a few in the diaspora.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183894: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:05:30 AM

He was better than some of the others at least...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183895: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:09:10 AM

As far as Sanders's support for blue dogs with left of center economic positions in red states goes, I'm disappointed by his insistence on labeling those people as progressives, though I do believe running candidates with left-wing economic positions and moderate if not downright right-leaning social positions is probably the way forwards when it comes to red states; opinion polling shows in recent years a massive shift away from conventional Republican economic positions even in the deep red states, even as they remain as backwards as ever in terms of social issues, and it's only a matter of time before the GOP starts shifting policy according.

It's already happening in fact. This was demonstrated quite well in the Republican primaries in fact; Trump outflanked the fiscal conservatives by promising not to cut the social safety net and calling for increased infrastructure spending. Trump promptly abandoned those positions once in office, but there's no guarantee every future Republican will do the same, and for me, the absolute worst case scenario in terms of how the parties move forwards is if progressive economy policy and progressive social policy end up becoming the domains of opposite parties, making every step forwards in one policy sphere two steps backwards in the other. Putting up with a new breed of blue dogs may be the price that we end up having to pay to gain the congressional margins necessary to enact policy, though we'll ultimately have to see what happens.

edited 20th Apr '17 7:14:06 AM by CaptainCapsase

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#183896: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:24:19 AM

[up]x4 "On a citizen’s right to health care: “I do not believe that healthcare is a basic right.”

LMAO. Yeah, it's not like living is important or anything...

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183897: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:25:52 AM

[up] Well at least he's upfront about it. Really, what did people expect from Republicans?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183898: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:29:29 AM

Like I said, guy gets points for actually taking the punches and being honest. But the bar is really low.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#183899: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:35:59 AM

[up][up][up][up] So the future, according to you, is going to be Bleeding Heart Libertarianism vs. Right Wing Socialism?

Man, Reagan is going to be rolling so hard in his grave in the future...

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#183900: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:38:48 AM

[up][up][up][up]I'm sure with the right propaganda they could probably convince many on the right to agree with that sentiment.

[up][up][up][up][up]I would rather not play into the idea that we can't have both social and economic justice by doing that. To invite social conservatives into the party is essentially to invite the specter of xenophobia and herenevolk social democracy into the mix, which would be toxic to the Democrats.


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