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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I presume its because part of the principles of America can be summed as "all voices are equal". Not like there's any chance of getting that in place considering that the Republicans and the people affected by this would probably see it as a power grab, and cry voter suppression (I don't know if they would be in the right on this, I'll check to see if the 26th or another amendment finalized a protection for elderly voters didn't see any amendment specifically, but I did notice that America is the rule, not the exception, that would be the Vatican)
edited 18th Apr '17 9:36:16 AM by MorningStar1337
Yes, but as I said, I was only talking about personal experience in the climate science field.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Once again, Caspase, you're arguing against a position that literally no one—least of all me—is supporting. Multiple people have now pointed it out to you.
Young people treat voting the way they treat picking out their favourite band. They want someone who is "totally real" and who will "never sellout". Unfortunately they have a highly undeveloped notion of just what constitutes being real and not selling out, so in the end they simply pick the candidate who feels like they're authentic and cling to them like a drowning man to a rope.
Eventually, of course, that candidate, being a person and not the fictitious construct his/her fans have built them up to be, will say or do something those fans disagree with and that's when they either bail on their former hero, deriding them as a sellout (the same way they bail on a band after a genre change), or dive deep into cognitive dissonance, insisting that things that would outrage them if done by someone else are acceptable from their guy ("I hate this genre. Except when X covers it."). It's how you end up with phenomena like the youth vote loving Obama until he actually took office, or the insistence, in the face of all her public statements, that Tulsi Gabbard is a progressive.
And it is those tendencies that vanish as one ages. You become more rational. You care less about "selling out". And you start developing an actual understanding of what constitutes authenticity in a candidate.
@Dingo Walley
She's Islamaphobic, homophobic, and supportive of dictatorial regimes that use Weapons of Mass Destruction against their own citizenry. That's pretty much the definition of being a social reactionary.
When did I denounce scientists as utterly corrupt? I was forwarding a position that some of intellectuals are compromised. That includes some scientists but not all or even most scientists.
You know you can bring up the people intellectuals who say tobacco doesn't kill or that marijuana is a dangerous drug.
They were important enough in the 2012 election to give the win to Obama.
Because they're disenfranchised by Dems and they have been for generations.
You're being obtuse. 17-29 year olds did show up in greater proportions than they usually do because Sanders appealed to them. If Hillary did more to appeal to the youth instead of assuming they'd vote for her out of fear of Trump she could've won.
That's kind of insulting. You really think she'd only be marginally better than Trump? I can't see Tulsi hiring freaking Jeff Sessions to make things worse for minorities in America. At least with Tulsi, I'm not afraid of being put in a camp.
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What I object to is putting Sanders and his supporters into the same category as Jill Stein and Ralph Nader, and suggesting that with age and maturity, people who voted for him will come to regret casting that vote, which given Clinton's subsequent loss in the general election and Sanders not running as a spoiler seems far, far less likely than buyer's remorse after McGovern got crushed.
edited 18th Apr '17 10:31:25 AM by CaptainCapsase
As others have noted, it's cynicism. I've met plenty of youths who don't vote or even bother following elections because "everyone knows" that all politicians are cut from the same cloth, they're all trying to screw you, there isn't a single policy that any of them hold that wasn't given to them by their corporate backers, and so there's no point even caring which one of them is going to be eroding your civil liberties.
Most of what they know about politics is consumed from media like South Park, The Simpsons, etc. in which the naked corruption of every political official is a popular joke, plus a dash of that ever-popular trope, Ambition Is Evil. They echo those sentiments in their philosophies.
Remember when we talked about how rural voters are dominated more by "common sense" than actual facts and learning? The same is true of youths.
edited 18th Apr '17 10:49:34 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'm a bit late to this, but to me the "elite" are just the people with the most money/power/influence in a society.
The thing is I don't see that as good or bad. Elites can do and fuck over the general population in a lot of cases, but being an "elite" doesn't automatically make you evil, it's what you do that matters.
Or in other words, it's ok to have money, just don't be a dick.
Take a good look at the Republican Party and tell me that isn't true to a large extent.
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The thing is they view both parties that way.
If nothing else, I'd say in the face of that to go for the candidate who at least says things you agree with. That way you can call them out when they inevitably betray you. A candidate who's both corrupt and speaks against your values has zero reason to care what you say.
Hell, how many people have used things like Clinton's Iraq war vote against her for reasons like that. Declaring she's like the rest of them but at least lip service to the subject that her actions betrayed.
edited 18th Apr '17 11:00:41 AM by sgamer82
And that attitude is not completely wrong. To a significant extent; the incentives of power are such that virtually all politicians engage in many of the same practices which would in a just world be called corrupt. They do so not because they're evil people, but because doing so is necessary to gain and hold power. There is a clear difference of degrees between the two parties, but the unpleasant realities of politics can be extremely off putting.
edited 18th Apr '17 11:03:45 AM by CaptainCapsase
"Ooh, ooh, Imma stick it to the establishment elites by electing him... he isn't?"
Like how it's OK to support pork programs that keep your constituents employed, yet the exact same thing is irredeemable corruption when others vote to keep their own constituents employed?
edited 18th Apr '17 11:07:57 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot![]()
The cynicism in general is wrong or my "encourage the cynics towards the candidates who offer the right lip service" is wrong?
If the former, wether it's right or wrong seems irrelevant in terms of pointing out it's how they feel. If the latter, I'm not inclined to argue. It's more a random "of they're going to be cynical anyway..." thought I had.
so I did
edited 18th Apr '17 11:09:23 AM by sgamer82
I mean there's more that you could point to on her record.
Like her foundation takes big donations from big oil companies and Saudi Arabia. She also supports offshore oil drilling and fracking. Or how she wouldn't voice an opinion on the Keystone XL pipeline. Then there's how she decried a US-Columbia agreement as being bad for labor rights and then turning around and supporting it after the oil company and it's founder gave millions of dollars to her foundation.
That's not to say this means she's bought for. It could all be coincidental and have some great explanantion behind it but it's bad for optics.
I feel you missed the actual point of my post.
For the record, don't bother pointing out Clinton corruption to me, specifically. I stopped caring about it when Trump won the election and treated her accusations like instructions. As I've said numerous times, it's no longer relevant.
Not to me, at least.
On second thought, maybe this makes my point. Assuming every accusation leveled at Trump and Clinton both are true, I'd still say Clinton's better because her publicly taken positions match mine more. If she acts against them, she's more vulnerable to protest from my side than Trump would be. She actually has to care about my vote.
edited 18th Apr '17 11:20:58 AM by sgamer82
Is that a reference to Sanders more or less getting a pass for voting in favor of pork bills that keep the military-industrial complex in his state happy while Booker got hell for voting against a bill that would have brought Canadian drugs into the USA, possibly to protect the pharma jobs in his state?
edited 18th Apr '17 11:17:37 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedOoo, the Clinton Foundation talking point. I remember that one. It was another one of the arguments the right used to hammer Clinton that became popularly regurgitated by bitter Sanders supporters.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

'sides, one could say the same thing about elderly voters. And in politics, competence is a subjective concept.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman