Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
That's also possible. Either way, it boils down to people not liking experts telling them that the things they want aren't possible and/or will go horribly wrong.
After all (tying into ![]()
![]()
), how dare the out of touch "ivory tower" bookworms tell real hardworking blue-collar Americans what is and isn't a good idea!
@blkwhtrbbt
I remember watching one of Obama's rallies during the campaign last year in which he pointed out that Trump was a hypocrite for claiming to be "anti-elite" when he has spent his entire life trying to be one of the global elites.
edited 17th Apr '17 10:59:26 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedRe:Alaska, our problem hasn't been ballot access for a while, sadly. Our minority voters (specifically Alaska Natives in the villages) have long been pro-Republican, in part because Alaska Republicans have always firmly stood up for them (or specifically, for their organized interest groups like the Native Corporations).
Fortunately, that's starting to crack ever since Ted Stevens kicked off. Unfortunately, part of the reason it's cracking is that Lisa Murkowski isn't Ted Stevens and has been marching in lockstep with the Party.since he kicked off. (At the state level, Alaska is run by the last of the "moderate conservatives," and currently Alaska's House majority is a mixed Democrat-Republican-Independent coalition, I shit you not. But that hasn't translated into anything in Washington.)
Rebellion, Fear of technology, and fear of the unknown. Oh and for some that it often disproves their holy books as anything other than parables at best (See: Library of Alexandria), and for others often shows them that their current state of mind is Hell on Earth and that the leaders made it that way.
edited 17th Apr '17 11:55:19 PM by MorningStar1337
The pot calling the kettle black.
They were important enough to make the difference in the general election.
You're taking it as a given that they won't vote and so we should ignore what and who they like thereby creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This is not a winning strategy.
I know the laws of my land. You can vote in the primary if you can prove your birthday comes before the general election.
I think it's the fascist identification of the Working Class Action Hero. Fascists lionize Joe Sixpack while creating a racial "team" to play for and enemies to play against. And their Joe Sixpack values hard work over thinking, which incidentally means that fascists can draw a line against "ivory tower intellectuals" who don't understand the working class and don't share their values. And to be fair, minority rights in the US were imposed on the Deep South by "liberal Northern elites" against the will of the existing white population. It's a good thing, but you can't reasonably expect them to agree with the change or forgive the people who they see as responsible.
In America, combine that with how rural Christians often look at colleges and cities as hotbeds of sin, and you've got fertile ground for a Know-Nothing Party.
edited 18th Apr '17 12:09:18 AM by Ramidel
It's weird how you guys define anti-elitism especially since most of us belong to at least one camp of anti-elites.
We have to define who the elite are first and every group has a different definition:
Alt-right- the Jews
The left- Corporations
The other left- Old White Men
The right- Intellectuals/ Corrupt politicians/coastal elites
To be honest, it's easier to unite a group based on what they're against than what they're for. That's part of why the right can usually hold things together much better than the Judean People's Front/People's Front of Judea mess on the left, because radicals are generally for something and they don't get along very well with people who are for something that differs in some key way.
And you know going back to anti-intellectualism, there is a point to be made that we do have a subservient intellectual class that's willing to rubber stamp ideas that benefit the rich. Control of thought isn't new.
If you can buy a politician, why can't you buy an intellectual? Is that really that rare?
That said, I think anti-intellectualism from the right stems from a different place than corruption.
![]()
Case in point: pharma companies don't so much buy off doctors with bribes as they do send reps who slowly gain the doctors' trust and appreciation by acting friendly and maybe occaisonally buying them a lunch. So when the doctor needs to prescribe a patient with something, their mind then drifts to said rep's company.
It's even more insidious than simple bribery.
Ironically, it's the right bribing and manipulating said scientists. Classic psychological projection of their own doings on to the opposition. "We bribe scientists, so the lefties must be doing it too!" See also: the "think-tanks" that advocate trickle-down economics.
edited 18th Apr '17 1:41:02 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedShouldn't Mike Pence be investigated?
He's literally taking tobacco money and then saying smoking doesn't kill.
You think too highly of scientific integrity. It's higher than political integrity though.
edited 18th Apr '17 1:50:05 AM by MadSkillz
![]()
It's usually not bribing an independent think-tank — it's more funding your own think-tank staffed with individuals who have similar political leanings and an understanding that if they want more funding they will provide results you can use.
For example, there was a "study" done to test if faith healing via prayer actually worked. The results weren't what they wanted (prayer apparently made things worse), so they dismissed them.
The scientific community is usually left to "police" their own via peer-review and falsifiability. It's up to the public to look up the community's judgement. Too bad some of them simply look up the stuff that panders to their world-view, peer-review be damned.
Example: A climate-change denier or anti-vaxxer ignores the thousands of Google-hits of studies showing their views are bullshit and prints out the scant handful of quack studies that support them.
Plenty of scientists have called out the likes of Andrew Wakefield as frauds. It's just that too many people aren't willing to listen to them because Wakefield's "studies" pander to their world-view.
edited 18th Apr '17 2:17:23 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedSome topic change: Serious design, construction and maintenance defects doomed Oroville Dam, report says
. To whit:
- The concrete floor of the main spillway was too thin and not reinforced with steel.
- There was not enough anchoring for the spillway floor, making it liable to down- and sideward movements.
- The failure started at a point above a clay drainage pipe, where the floor of the main spillway was extremely thin.
- Said drain was probably blocked by vegetation, allowing water to accumulate beneath and "float" the spillway floor. This may not have been relevant in the onset of the crisis, though.
Not sure how legitimate concerns about "national security" are though - dams are very "hard" targets and thus generally not favoured. That might apply more to a concrete arch-gravity dam like Hoover than an embankment dam like Oroville, though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman"You think too highly of scientific integrity": Is this the prelude to some rant about dialectical sciences and how Lysenkoism is the future?
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotSomeone stole voting machines in Georgia right before the special election.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/amp/p/b57a97493db6
![]()
![]()
Is there some way we can get the Democratic Party to denounce Gabbard, possibly even kick her right out of the party? It's not like she's in a swing or red state, so we don't exactly need her specifically.
The comments to that Gabbard story give a little perspective on how she has support. (Be wary, tis a sample size of about four supporters—on twitter). note
No. It's the neoliberal warmongers who are on Trump's side wanting more regime-change wars that will kill thousand of babies. Not Tulsi.
No. Tulsi's a progressive Dem fighting bad policies like an adult.
Tulsi's a person of color who has denounced white supremacy as pure evil. She fights against bad policy, not engages in personal attacks.
Tulsi is being an adult. It's disgusting how @DNC Party shills keep throwing her under the bus.
Throwing in with Assad because she met with him? All she wants is evidence. Which we should all want right?
You don't hold a monopoly on the 1st amendment. She'd be the first to call for his prosecution if independent evidence showed he was guilty...She supports peace, not Assad. Doesn't want Syria to become another Iraq war.

See I don't think it was ever genuine anti-elite feelings turning into anti-intellectual feelings, it was always genuine anti-intellectual feelings being hidden behind a mask of anti-elite feelings.
When they said they were anti-elite they were lying, they were always anti-intellectual, there was no corruption because it was bad to begin with for the Trump movement.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran