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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#183326: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:40:21 PM

Good riddance to bad garbage. Stay away from my state, you traitor.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183327: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:47:35 PM

I think Trump noticed at some point that if you confuse and befuddle people, it becomes harder for them to hold you accountable.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183328: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:50:07 PM

[up][up][up]What a surprise. I am just so blown away by that surprise. An American secessionist who pretended to be a progressive is actually a Russian shill. What a shocker.

There's a good reason why people(like some tropers here) trying to label Bernie as the white people's candidate caused backlash among the young (17-29) minority community.

Couldn't resist, could you? Young people don't vote. Period. They've never once made the difference in an election and them staying home is business as usual. Most of those same young people couldn't be bothered to vote for him in the primaries.

Every time someone points out the racial issues with the Sanders campaign you retaliate with "young minorities liked him". And every time someone responds by pointing out that young people do not vote and that therefore who they like is utterly meaningless; they never turn out to the polls in any sort of numbers, and this election is no different in that regard. Hell, your own statement includes the opinions of seventeen year olds, who literally cannot vote.

edited 17th Apr '17 7:50:31 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183329: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:56:39 PM

[up] Huh, so I wasn't the only one who noticed it was odd that the age range was 17-29.

Also, Louis Marinelli can go fuck himself.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:03:44 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183330: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:03:38 PM

I'm fairly certain in some states where they'll be 18 prior to the general they're allowed to vote in primaries.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183331: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:09:06 PM

I have a question. What do you think would be good issues to talk with swing voters now, to create a foundation for campaigning in 2018 and 2020? What issues do you think are most important to address if we reach out to the twos, threes, and fours?

edited 17th Apr '17 8:14:50 PM by megaeliz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183332: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:11:24 PM

The youth of today become the voters of tomorrow (and the leaders of institutions after that), and political attitudes are relatively stable throughout life, at least once they achieve middle adulthood, so what and who they like now is not meaningless.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:11:47 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183333: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:14:25 PM

@Ambar: Young voters were one of several keystone demographics in the so called Obama coalition, and while they typically do not turn out at high rates, what we think absolutely does matter if you have any concern for the long term health of the political system. The difference between a generation sinking into political nilhism and never turning out to vote in appreciable numbers and gradually becoming more and more involved in politics with time.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:15:40 PM by CaptainCapsase

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#183334: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:15:37 PM

I think Trump noticed at some point that if you confuse and befuddle people, it becomes harder for them to hold you accountable.

But what he doesn't understand is that people will only put up with such bullshit for a little while, then flatly refuse to do business with you anymore. And they'll warn all their friends to be leery of you, too.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183335: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:16:04 PM

Actually who they like now is meaningless. Because while political attitudes remain relatively stable, maturity can and frequently does kill the search for a messiah, as evidenced by the number of remorseful Ralph Nader (or Eugene McCarthy or George McGovern or pick-your-liberal-messiah-of-the-week) voters I've met.

In short, by the time they've become regular and reliable voters, they've usually also grown up enough to refrain from falling in love with the saviour du jour. Those who don't grow out of that habit, of course, do not generally become reliable or consistent voters, and remain irrelevant beyond their attempts at poisoning the well for the actual reliable voting blocs.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183336: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:16:26 PM

Or he doesnt care.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183337: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:16:57 PM

@pwiegle Which is more or less what happened with the US banks.

[up][up] I imagine that by the time they reach that age, the whole "free college" thing won't be as appealing to them. Or they'll realize that such a promise would be rather difficult to actually implement in the USA especially if you also intend to implement a massive overhaul of K~12 public schooling.

I also recall reading more than a few opinion pieces from regretful Nader voters begging people not to make the same mistake in 2016.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:23:19 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183338: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:18:07 PM

I wonder if at least some of the tendency not to vote is that people often leave their state for college, so in many places they can't vote. Election Day takes place in the middle of the first semester.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:18:22 PM by megaeliz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183339: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:21:02 PM

[up] Voting (and registering for that matter) in the USA is way too difficult in too many places. I'm lucky to be registered in California, where I can mail in a ballot from just about anywhere in the world. Even in Taiwan.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:21:30 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#183340: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:25:30 PM

[up][up]Every college worth a damn has people all over the place signing people up to vote. That shouldn't be an excuse.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#183341: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:27:06 PM

Alaska lets you vote by absentee ballot. It's how I've always voted.

Do not obey in advance.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183342: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:28:27 PM

@Ambar; The same intuition ("I know X people who used to be liberals") is used to "prove" people become more conservative with age. They don't, quite the opposite in fact. Political attitudes generally don't shift much once they're established, and in fact tend to get more extreme and less nuanced (along with other personality traits) with age, due to second order effects of the aging of the brain.

The millennial s are very unlikely to fall in line as good little centrists, though I definitely think it's plausible fatalism will win the day, leaving most of us resigned to life in America being suffering and not giving a shit about politics.

edited 17th Apr '17 8:32:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#183343: Apr 17th 2017 at 8:59:39 PM

[up] You're confusing (perhaps deliberately) what Amber is talking about. Amber is talking about not latching onto a single person who you think will fix everything and demanding that they fix it all instantly while refusing to consider any other options. Goals don't change as people age but the way they go about achieving the goals does change, that's what Amber is talking about.

The folks who demand a saviour today and felt betrayed because Obama didn't fix everything in two years will still want the same things twenty years from now, but they'll be much more willing to get them via a long term plan of slow comprise and dragging of the overtone window.

Every college worth a damn has people all over the place signing people up to vote. That shouldn't be an excuse.

True, but the fact that some states don't accept a college ID as a valid ID for voting is a pretty valid excuse.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#183344: Apr 17th 2017 at 9:00:55 PM

Ok so people ask what people saw in trump, which it force me to use my venezuelan card again(what can I said, it just kept on giving) and I will cite 3 factor:

people tired of the status quo: in away this was kinda bound to happen, Obama face a lot of things and the change he brought upset people, that this mean obama is guilty? no but sometimes politics are like that.

Trump as the outsider: a good thing of messiahs is that they come out of nowhere so there is nothing to tie him up, people create this fantasy of him being "pure" for not being dealing with washington if mix this with is unusual styles which clash with the formal way of dealing he look more appealing because he looks uniquie unlike others(in a way this bad thing for clinton because she IS pretty much your standard politician in that regard) this mix with racism allow him to pretty much get away with crap other politician dont.

the charming con artist: this is part baffle many people in this thread, Trump is con artist sure...but that mean he have been successful in tricking people he is awsome(when he is not) in this case the moment help A LOT since a lot of conservative was expecting a messiah outsider(in a way, obama was this for a lot of people) by people who feel frustrated about republican not winning that much against the establishment, trump just goes and start throwing shit at everyone so people take him as brutal honesty and the whole "a no nonsense guy who tell you are shit because you are"

In many way Trump become the protagonist of is on damn sitcom and people greenlighting him, people will only regret him later.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183345: Apr 17th 2017 at 9:08:49 PM

[up] Again, fuck populism.

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#183346: Apr 17th 2017 at 9:15:52 PM

to be fair populism can serve for a politican to be conect with people, otherwise you have a far away politician who dosent give a fuck.

and again this is a case of narratives and everyone use one, Obama was "change" and the fact he was cool, calm guy in a era of bush stupidity play a role, but is calm and somewhat neutral role will kinda haunt him in year to come because it allow people to said things about him(on the other hand, obama didnt have any damn reason to expect this)

in fact I will said that is trump lack of control is one of the few reason he win by so damn little, I will said a large part of those 3 millions voter come from the debates were he pick is lowest part in the campain

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183347: Apr 17th 2017 at 9:18:25 PM

[up] Connecting with the common people is one thing, but pointing the finger at "elites" (which all too often becomes "intellectuals") is another thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#183348: Apr 17th 2017 at 9:59:57 PM

It is complete and utter hypocrisy to decry "elites" and then vote in Donald Trump.

Full stop.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#183349: Apr 17th 2017 at 10:09:03 PM

The "elite" label only applies to people they don't like who happen to be middle class or above.

That's literally all it is, and it's extremely annoying because it plays into the idea that rural, blue-collar people are the only "real" americans.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183350: Apr 17th 2017 at 10:28:01 PM

That's one of the reasons anti-elite usually becomes anti-intellectual. Particularly if the experts are the ones saying that the populist probably won't be able to keep their promises.

edited 17th Apr '17 10:28:15 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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