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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183301: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:14:59 PM

[up][up][up] Trump seemingly outperformed most past Republican nominees among minority voters (by like 3-5%), as baffling as that sounds, so it seems like at least some people in minority demographics were taken in by his snake oil salesman routine. I suspect a great many simply stayed home out of despair, hence the turnout decline.

edited 17th Apr '17 4:16:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#183302: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:23:15 PM

I try to be fair to people. I try to be. They're not stupid, just misinformed? Their hearts are in the right place, they've just been raised with these beliefs?

It's when we get to Trump, though, that I have to really question my core tenants. Trump is not like other shitty politicians. He is the most blatantly corrupt prick I've seen in such a high office. His antics were willfully ignored by his voters, His racism. His sexism. Either they didn't consider it bigoted or they didn't care. That. That is a major problem.

We can say things like not everyone is well educated, but with someone so Obviously Evil? I dunno man. It's not that I don't believe you... I just find it really hard.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#183303: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:24:42 PM

I can't believe that more peoples' BS detectors don't go off whenever they see Trump or hear him talk. Or when he contradicts something he's said earlier or flip-flopped on before.

Do not obey in advance.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#183304: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:26:52 PM

Despite the fact that literally every reliable resource in the world has been telling them this till they were blue in the face.

Thing is they don't get their information from reliable sorces, they get it from cable news in general (which normalised Trump heavily by insisting that Clinton was just as bad as him), Fox News specifically (which beyond their he odd exception backed Trump to the hilt) and Facebook (which heavily pushed fake news).

You want to talk about why so many people bought Trump's snake oil trick? It's because Facebook, Fox News, CNN and similar all fed them information that normalised Trump's snake oil.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183305: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:27:48 PM

[up][up][up]And then there's this:

Of all voters who cast a ballot in the general election, 25 percent were black, Hispanic, Asian, or a member of another minority group. But those voters were 42 percent of those who didn’t vote. Drilling down a little further, black voters made up 11 percent of voters who cast a ballot and 19 percent who didn’t. This disparity really hurt Clinton because black voters (by 82 percentage points) and Hispanic voters (by 40 percentage points) overwhelmingly favored her, while white voters went for Trump by a 16-point margin in the Survey Monkey poll.

Minorities didn't really care enough to vote for Hillary.

And when you break it down you realize it's young minorities that didn't vote for Clinton:

More harmful for Clinton was which young voters stayed home: minorities. Among white voters, voters 18-29 years old made up 30 percent of voters who did not participate in the November election. Among young Hispanic voters, that climbs to 43 percent. Among young black voters, it was an even higher 46 percent. That generally matches the findings of the voter data released in some Southern states showing that young black voters were especially likely to stay home in this election. Younger black voters were far more likely to support Bernie Sanders in the primary, suggesting that there simply was not the enthusiasm for Clinton’s candidacy as there was for Obama’s in 2012. Clinton’s favorable rating, for instance, was about 10 percentage points lower among the youngest black voters compared to the oldest black voters in the Survey Monkey poll.

There's a good reason why people(like some tropers here) trying to label Bernie as the white people's candidate caused backlash among the young (17-29) minority community.

There's always been these articles about how Bernie supporters are basically only white people," Lee told NPR.

He continued, "Me, myself, and many other POC, people of color, who support Bernie Sanders, feel like we don't get to be a part of the conversation. We get ignored. We get erased. It's assumed that the black vote, the Hispanic vote, and everyone is all behind Hillary Clinton and none of us really get Bernie Sanders or like Bernie Sanders."

So he decided to have fun with it. "Hey, if you're gonna ignore me as a black person, I might as well embrace my whiteness," Lee said. "I might as well start watching Friends, or enjoying pumpkin spice latte, or whatever. I just wanted to have a bit of fun with it while highlighting the serious issue."

And then people started hashtagging #Bernie Made Me White on Twitter.

edited 17th Apr '17 4:29:04 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183306: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:30:20 PM

Thing is they don't get their information from reliable sorces, they get it from cable news in general (which normalised Trump heavily by insisting that Clinton was just as bad as him), Fox News specifically (which beyond their he odd exception backed Trump to the hilt) and Facebook (which heavily pushed fake news). You want to talk about why so many people bought Trump's snake oil trick? It's because Facebook, Fox News, CNN and similar all fed them information that normalised Trump's snake oil.

Yep. Cable news is not a good source of information. Especially since they wanted to see Trump get as far as possible to get those views. He was good for ratings.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#183307: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:34:36 PM

Well that attempt to avoid reigniting the primary was fun while it lasted...

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#183308: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:36:13 PM

[up][up] Trump for ratings?

Rarely have I been so disgusted.

I feel bad for minorities being left out from the conversation. It distresses me.

edited 17th Apr '17 4:36:29 PM by PolarPhantom

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#183309: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:43:51 PM

[up][up]It's never going to end.

Ever.

Policy and strategy have become inseparable, so any discussion of "What do Democrats do now?" will inevitably lead back to those same tensions between the differing viewpoints. And it won't stop, not even if one side ends up winning.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183310: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:51:39 PM

Stop worrying about the fives. We are never going to convince the fives. We need to focus on how to convince threes and fours. And that needs to happen by using issue advocacy now to convince people to give us a chance, and transition to campaigning for the 2018 and 2020 elections.

So right now we need to focus on the issues, and finding common ground with the people that will fall into that middle area.

edited 17th Apr '17 4:56:13 PM by megaeliz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#183311: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:54:17 PM

Have we got any feedback from Kansas yet, who did we convince there and how did we do it? Because that's our answer right there, that's our group to target.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#183312: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:55:55 PM

I just got from my WTFJHT feed that Russian TV says Trump is more dangerous than Kim Jong-Un. The Kremlin’s top TV mouthpiece said “Trump is more impulsive and unpredictable than Kim Jong Un.”

Russia. Calling Trump as more impulsive and unpredictable. Than Kim Jong Un of North Korea.

There is a heavy taste of iron in my mouth, yet there's no blood.

Also, apparently many big industrial companies have now joined the "climate change is real and we should do something about it" side.

edited 17th Apr '17 4:58:04 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183313: Apr 17th 2017 at 4:57:24 PM

Have we got any feedback from Kansas yet, who did we convince there and how did we do it? Because that's our answer right there, that's our group to target.

Well they were very close to voting for a Democrat in a super red district.

But Kansas is compounded by Brownback so I don't think that would be the ideal indicator.

The Georgia special election should tell us more of where the country is headed and all signs point to a blue wave.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183314: Apr 17th 2017 at 5:00:50 PM

Really, I highly suggest listening to that seminar I linked to. The speaker was a professional campaigner and organizer who helped campaign for Obama's reelection, as well as the ACA. It deals with exactly what we're taking about.

https://www.resistanceschool.com/session-two-1/

As for Kansas, the while the candidate had a lot of Grassroots support, he did not have the support of the Kansas Democratic Party, which also hurt him.

Here's an article by the candidate James Thompson about what he thinks we can take away from it; https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkprogress.org/amp/p/b57a97493db6

edited 17th Apr '17 5:20:10 PM by megaeliz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183315: Apr 17th 2017 at 6:48:02 PM

From the second article: "A lot of people here want good health care and affordable health care, so [Trump’s attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act] definitely did not help him.

The selection of Betsy De Vos actually was a huge thing here. There was a ten to one split against her and people told both our senators, ‘do not put that woman in as Secretary of Education, do not confirm her,’ and they did not listen."

And that's in a Red State.

For myself, I don't think that Trump voters really were all that misinformed. They hate Washington so much, and they wanted someone who would disrupt the system so badly, and Trump was really the only candidate promising that. A lot of Trump voters I know basically held their nose and voted for him just to keep Clinton out. Because she symbolizes what they don't like: the establishment and the status quo. So I think they knew what they were going to get and they got it.

Some of them may be experiencing buyer's remorse now.

I think any democrat who actually listens to them and presents policies designed to help them will clean up. It wont be easy, because such a person would have to find a way to reconcile that approach while still representing the Democrats traditional base of minorities and liberal upper middle class whites. But it can be done, as James Thompson demonstrates.

edited 17th Apr '17 6:48:36 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183316: Apr 17th 2017 at 6:50:20 PM

[up][up][up][up] If it turns out Russia did provide a lot of support to Trump's campaign in addition to spreading propaganda to help him win and all of this outrage isn't just for show (as Swanpride has theorized)...what were they thinking?

"We need to do something to weaken the USA. I know! Let's help put an unstable moron in charge of it! I'm sure his earlier praise of Putin will make it easier to maintain good relations with him despite decades of evidence indicating that genuine friendship and loyalty are totally alien concepts to him! There's no way this can backfire!"

[up] "I hate those damn elites so much! I wanna burn their house down!...Oh shit, fire spreads! Who knew?!"

edited 17th Apr '17 6:53:11 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#183317: Apr 17th 2017 at 6:55:10 PM

[up] I think what happened was that the discovery of Russia's involvement in our Election was revealed 'too early' for them; they were probably expecting at least a year to enjoy Trump and gain good relations at least for the short term, which would be enough time to get rid of the Sanctions. But with the Obama Administration basically revealing their influence a week after the election, and several of Trump's buddies with real Russian Connections being kicked out (like Flynn and Manafort) or having to distance themselves from Russia (like Tillerson), Russia's ability to maintain an alliance with Trump deteriorated rapidly.

And with Trump being Trump, it was only a matter of time before other voices got him to go against Russian Interests at some point...

edited 17th Apr '17 6:58:16 PM by DingoWalley1

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183318: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:05:07 PM

[up][up] Honestly, backing Trump is very much a Xanatos Gambit for Putin; if he actually does manage to pull American foreign policy in a pro-Russia direction*, well it's ideal for the United States to be closer to both Russia and China than they are to one another, and the reverse is presumably true for Russia. Conversely, if things continue as they have thus far, Trump severely discredits the United States, and might very well get dragged into a war with China, which would lead to the devastation of both of Russia's primary long term rivals.

* (which more or less would require a permanent rupture in EU-US relations (or Sino-Russian relations, though that's even less likely in the near term) to give us a common enemy, something I'm not sure even Trump is capable of)

In fact, the sanctions in general have more or less been used in that fashion; with the status quo, they're a drag on the economy, but not unbearable, and validate the sentiment in Russia that the west is out to get them, keeping the opposition quiet and the people loyal to the state. If the sanctions are lifted without Russia making any concessions, that's a massive public image victory for them both internally and abroad.

edited 17th Apr '17 7:07:32 PM by CaptainCapsase

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#183319: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:09:48 PM

[up][up][up][up] De Vos is an interesting case, because she obviously doesn't care about the people. Trump is a con artist who tricked people into thinking he cared, but Betsy De Vos didn't even do that. All she ever talks about is the voucher system and wanting to prop up private schools. A lot of poor areas don't actually have any private schools and the ones they do have suck, on top of the perception of private schools as "rich people schools". Basically, the people she needs to support her in red states don't actually really want a voucher system, if it would even work, and the rich don't need a voucher system.

It's a program that lacks a broad support base, and it's basically a way to fund schools without having to run them or do anything about what they teach.

It doesn't help that De Vos comes off as either obviously out of touch or actively dismissive of the people depending on the day, and she's no one's hero.

Although, as far as I can tell, De Vos has been completely useless so far. I heard a rumor (I don't know if it's true or not) that she hasn't even been able to make any concrete proposals because she doesn't understand the Department of Education's system (this isn't exactly an indictment, being dropped on top of a bureaucracy with no experience can't be easy) and no one there wants to work with her. Basically, her proposals don't go into enough detail, or they overlook something that should be obvious. Again, this is just a rumor.

edited 17th Apr '17 7:15:13 PM by Zendervai

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183320: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:13:44 PM

Well, Trump seems to be moving closer to China and away from Russia, but who knows, in a week he could reverse himself again.

Which may be part of the point actually. Trump reputedly used his reputation for unpredictability to his advantage in business negotiations, or thinks he did.

Regardless, fairly sure Putin is experiencing buyers remorse now.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#183321: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:15:13 PM

I doubt it. He's achieved his goal. Which is the destabilization of the US and the West.

He won a long time ago.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183322: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:17:47 PM

[up][up] Thing is, unpredictability in the business world means unreliability. Which is a major reason why US banks don't want to lend him money. And being perceived as unreliable and untrustworthy is even worse in geopolitics. Especially when a good chunk of your country's prosperity relies on trade.

[up] Putin threw a flaming bag of dogshit on the USA's doorstep. Now he's trying to make sure none of the shit lands on him.

edited 17th Apr '17 7:19:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183323: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:26:38 PM

I didn't say Trump was correct in his own assessment, only that that may be what he is thinking.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183324: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:32:54 PM

[up] Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people agree with him.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#183325: Apr 17th 2017 at 7:38:53 PM

And not his status as the new gig in town covered in gold leaf?

I'd say that as long as it was within the continental US, it wasn't negotiating as much as refusing to honor previous agreements.

The leader of Yes California is settling down permanently in Russia. He will not actively campaign for Californian secession, but will be an "representative for the Republic of California in Russia".

Truly the voice of the coastal elite.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

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