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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183151: Apr 16th 2017 at 9:32:11 AM

[up] So not only does Trump have possible ties to organized crime, he even runs his businesses like a criminal organization. Resignations Not Accepted, or at least severely punished.

edited 16th Apr '17 9:33:03 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183152: Apr 16th 2017 at 9:39:09 AM

Nota bene, ties to organized crime were apparently sort of mandatory back in the day. So it does not mean that much.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183153: Apr 16th 2017 at 9:50:28 AM

The thing is though that David Rockefeller's son David Rockefeller Jr. was a noted conservationist and a big advocate of public lands, and the family is still noted for their philanthropy and conservation efforts. No such luck from Trump.

His father, Fred Trump, managed to piss off Woody Guthrie. And the family is still immensely disliked by New York City.

(Can be sung to the tune of "I ain't got no home: http://woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Old_Man_Trump.htm )

http://www.newsweek.com/what-renting-old-man-trump-taught-woody-guthrie-418840

edited 16th Apr '17 3:48:26 PM by megaeliz

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183154: Apr 16th 2017 at 9:53:21 AM

Well, the oldest Rockefellers worked themselves to money. And apparently promoted a certain kind of "not everybody is born with a golden spoon in the mouth" attitude among their children. Not such the case with the evil dog. Or the Koch brothers apparently. Apparently, upbringing makes the man more than money does.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#183155: Apr 16th 2017 at 9:56:00 AM

I though the metaphor was "Silver Spoon"

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#183156: Apr 16th 2017 at 10:08:53 AM

Were referring to Trump. You think he'd settle for silver?

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#183157: Apr 16th 2017 at 11:14:06 AM

Or Trump simply likes to show off. I somehow doubt that he is aware what is considered "classy" and what isn't, he only cares that whatever he buys is expensive, so that he can con people into believing that he is actually a billionaire and not a con artist.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#183158: Apr 16th 2017 at 11:34:19 AM

Speaking of money. Trump is again accusing protestors from yesterday of being fake and paid off.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#183159: Apr 16th 2017 at 11:41:14 AM

Yeah, cause it costs so much to take a day off, if you even have to since it was on a Saturday, and march for a day. It's not that hard to walk down a street with a group of other people.

Although considering the pathetic turnout of pro-Trump marches and rallies (there were literally tens of people!) maybe he thinks you really do have to pay people to show up.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#183160: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:00:49 PM

@Wyldchyld: Snobbish as the attitude may be, I actually sympathize with the stance of "old money" towards "new money", because it has a bit of a good point at the core of it.

Of course, I'm assuming that "new money" doesn't include the likes of, say, Bill Gates. AFAIK, he actually does a lot of useful things with his money, didn't let the wealth go into his head, and even stepped down from active leadership of his big company to focus on doing more actual work. All in all, not at all like the average modern-day "new money" types, even though he emerged at around the same time as them.

@Zendervai, RE Rockefeller: In other words, he had adequate amounts of both pragmatism and wisdom. The latter is with 100% certainty nonexistent in Trump's case, in which case even having copious amounts of the former would be meaningless.

RE Trump: Wow, so he's an outcast even among "new money" people? No wonder he's so desperate for recognition by old money; even his supposed peers refuse to associate with him, and his ego would naturally prevent him from "lowering" himself to the level of those he deems "inferior" to him (i.e. the rest of the "new money" club) just for the sake of their companionship.

@M84:

Rockefeller invested in society. Trump merely preys on it.
<Face Palm> If he's truly trying to imitate Rockefeller, then he's doing it so utterly wrong it's not even funny.

He's actually quite the cheapskate with his own money and is a big believer in style over substance. Hence an inauguration cake made of styrofoam, and a gilded personal jet that's actually really old and not maintained well.
... You're serious about the cake thing? Because that's... That's absolutely stupid. What's the point of a cake if nobody can eat it? Cake is food; food is for eating. It's not rocket surgery.

And... there's a trope (Nouveau Riche) summarising my previous post. God, if I'd realised that, I could have avoided making the post. [lol]
Please do not regret making that post. I actually learned something new from it that I wouldn't have learned from reading the trope's description.

@Documentary of people who work for Trump: ... Are we still not allowed to declare that Trump is a sociopath/psychopath? Because such glaringly obvious lack of any shred of empathy, ego-stroking and nigh-sadism can't be anything but a clear mark of sociopathy/psychopathy.

@Septimus Heap: In other words, the "self-made" part of a true Self-Made Man involves a lot more than just making money; it also requires that the man work diligently to improve himself as a person.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#183161: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:04:55 PM

Speaking of money. Trump is again accusing protestors from yesterday of being fake and paid off.
Man, and here I am still waiting for my phat Soros check from marching back in January.tongue

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183162: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:06:17 PM

[up][up] The cake was a cheap replica of Obama's inauguration cake. In case you haven't noticed, Trump is kind of hung up on Obama. Only three inches of Trump's cake was actual cake. The rest was styrofoam.

As for the point...it's just more of the Style over Substance that has defined Trump's life.

edited 16th Apr '17 12:06:34 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183163: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:13:16 PM

Why are all anti-Trump protests supposedly funded George Soros? All I really know about him is he is a rich philanthropist .

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#183164: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:16:09 PM

Even Trump knows he can't blame Obama for everything.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#183165: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:17:37 PM

[up][up]

Oh please, every far right government everywhere blames Soros for...everything. He's also Jewish and wealthy, which is a combination which triggers all sorts of anti-semites and weirdoes.

Politically speaking he's liberal and progressive, actively funding initiatives and many other things, that certain people don't like.

edited 16th Apr '17 12:19:04 PM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183166: Apr 16th 2017 at 12:18:21 PM

[up][up][up] Soros is the rightwingers' go-to Boogeyman. Never mind that he opposed Communism in his homeland of Hungary.

[up] [nja]

Of course, Soros isn't an angel. He's about as cutthroat a financier as you'd expect from someone who has gotten so rich. He famously broke the Bank of England in 1992 by betting on devaluation of the pound. He also runs a hedge fund. Hedge funds are nicknamed "vulture" funds for a reason.

He was also a supporter of the TPP, or at least thought the USA abandoning it was a big mistake on their part. Which probably wouldn't sit well with most "progressives".

edited 16th Apr '17 12:31:31 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183168: Apr 16th 2017 at 2:44:54 PM

Resistance school's next seminar is this Thursday at 7:00 Eastern Time. It's seminars on how to create a sustainable movement and to effectively harness the grassroots energy organized by Harvard students.

I would highly recommend checking them out, especially if you are involved in grassroots organizatizing.

https://www.resistanceschool.com/

Sign up here: https://www.resistanceschool.com/sign-up-2/ (They are livestreaming it as well)

edited 16th Apr '17 2:54:20 PM by megaeliz

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183169: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:12:00 PM

But this thread is determined to alienate the people on the left.

You know something? I'm sick and tired of hearing this. I'm tired of having everyone from diehard Sanders supporters to people who voted for the freaking Green Party come into the thread and accuse of "alienating the left" or trying to "suppress the left" or what have you. It's based on the pernicious, and frankly, idiotic assumption, that the bulk of this thread's inhabitants are not members of the left. At least one member of the thread has, on several occasions, responded to others by saying things like "I like this policy, but then again, I'm a progressive", as though the rest of us weren't.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm a social democrat. I've been a member of the NDP since I was fifteen. I've canvassed for and helped elect candidates who are further to the left than Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein can dream. I am not a "centrist". A pragmatist, certainly, but put me in any test of political values and I show up on the far left of the graph.

Now, some of this is the fault of me, and those who agree with me, using terms like "radical left" and "far left" to refer to those on the left with whom we have a problem. We should stop doing that. My problem with Bernie Sanders is not that he's too far to the left for me—my problem with him is that he had no plans for how to govern and he pushes the interests of his precious WWC above all else. My problem with the Bernie or Busters (or whatever they call themselves now) is not that they're "radical", it's that they're Unicorn Brigaders and shallow thinkers who are vastly less progressive than they think they are. My problem with Tulsi Gabbard isn't that's she's a socialist, it's that she's a homophobe, Islamaphobe, and apologist for people like Assad. And Jill Stein isn't a revolutionary; she's a pro-Russia, anti-science hack.

From here on out I'm calling these people what they are—fauxgressives, Unicorn Brigaders, and in the case of Gabbard, a flat out reactionary. I'll call them the "fringe left", because their opinions are fringe, but "far left," "radical left"? That's not what they are. There are self-proclaimed centrists and pragmatists in this thread who are more radical than people like Jill Stein will ever be.

We're not trying to "suppress the left". We're trying to protect it from hacks, conartists, and incompetents. If you think we've got the wrong targets or should ease up on certain ones, that's fine. But stop saying we're trying to stop progress or prevent "the left" from taking over the party. That's not what we're doing. At least it certainly ain't what I'm doing.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#183170: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:15:20 PM

[up][awesome]

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183171: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:18:44 PM

"This thread" may not be trying to alienate left wing voters, but after a while all the complaining about the far left and Sanders becomes undue and out of proportion. And repetitive. Especially when it starts to rely on dubious reading of certain sources. So please wind it back.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#183172: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:23:04 PM

I'm looking forward to my Soros check when I go out on Saturday

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183173: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:29:48 PM

[up][up] exactly, it's just frustrating to have to deal with the same subject over and over. Not trying to insult or alienate anybody.

edited 16th Apr '17 3:35:30 PM by megaeliz

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#183174: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:46:46 PM

Or Trump simply likes to show off. I somehow doubt that he is aware what is considered "classy" and what isn't, he only cares that whatever he buys is expensive, so that he can con people into believing that he is actually a billionaire and not a con artist.

Trump Tower's designs are very similar to some of the tackiest old estates in the UK. In fact, not just the UK, but across Europe (and including some of the old estates of Russia, too). He's mimicked all the gaudiest trappings of the aristocracy throughout the ages with a good sign that he doesn't understand what he's mimicking which is why it's all a clashing cherry-picked mess. He just wants to look as wealthy as possible, thinks that's how to do it, and doesn't realise he's ended up look like tat.

Of course, I'm assuming that "new money" doesn't include the likes of, say, Bill Gates. AFAIK, he actually does a lot of useful things with his money, didn't let the wealth go into his head, and even stepped down from active leadership of his big company to focus on doing more actual work. All in all, not at all like the average modern-day "new money" types, even though he emerged at around the same time as them.

I don't know Gates' family history off the top of my head, but I've got the feeling he's actually got some old money family history, so I'm not sure he's a good example to use of new money successfully moving in old money circles (although his ancestors might be). It certainly does happen, however, which is how some new money and old money families historically ended up inter-marrying without incurring their period's type of social disgrace (I think Gates comes from one such family, but I could be wrong).

edited 16th Apr '17 3:56:34 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183175: Apr 16th 2017 at 3:56:37 PM

I wonder if he's genuinely confused when the the old money doesn't accept him?

edited 16th Apr '17 3:59:29 PM by megaeliz


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