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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183026: Apr 15th 2017 at 9:47:47 AM

[up] Especially if that guy sees your pet project as a tool to help instigate said race war.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#183027: Apr 15th 2017 at 9:48:11 AM

"Wasn't that a big part of how the New Deal got through? Minorities being thrown under the bus?"

That was EXPLICITLY the reason the New Deal passed. Southern Democrats weren't on board until FDR was willing to make exceptions for SS for certain occupations (of those occupations 90%+ of them were black and POC. If you were white in those occupations, tough shit.)

New Survey coming this weekend!
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#183028: Apr 15th 2017 at 9:48:14 AM

The more charitable interpretation is "Hey, even racists agree, single-payer is the way". Which might be true, but is so bad on the optics it is truly laughable.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183029: Apr 15th 2017 at 9:52:21 AM

[up] Genocidal racists at that. Spencer isn't just a run-of-the-mill bigot. He wants minorities gone, one way or another.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183030: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:01:14 AM

Hey, according to Spencer he's not genocidal. He just wants a "peaceful ethnic cleansing". Because that's a thing that's historically happened.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183031: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:07:45 AM

Well, the article Sanders linked does talk about about Trump voters - demographics which according to the folks of 538 include some Obama voters, which is apparently the reason Hillary lost support in comparison to Barry-O - and Republicans in general, mentioning one alt righter as an example. To read that as seeking support from the alt right itself is a cavalier reading.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#183032: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:08:02 AM

Being super charitable that probably means he wants to send all the minorities back where they came from. Never mind the fact that if we follow this to its logical conclusion all the white people should go back to Europe.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#183033: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:08:34 AM

The most articulate idiot ever seen. Presentable, even. Roll up Roll up everybody come see the moron.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#183034: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:09:11 AM

If you ever consider running for a state legislature, do it in the Peach State...(The AJC title's a bit misleading)
Lobbyists give Georgia lawmakers a $400,000 buffet

Lobbyists spent more than $400,000 on group events over three months during the 2017 legislative session which ended in March.

Those group expenditures ranged from large, open-invitation buffets at the Georgia Railroad Freight Depot across from the Capitol to dinners hosted at some of Atlanta’s best restaurants, where entire committees were feted by special interests.

While individual gifts from lobbyists to lawmakers are capped at $75 per gift, many such group events have no cost ceiling. That loophole was written in the 2013 ethics reform bill lawmakers passed after years of voters’ clamoring for change.

While lobbyists consider a private meal with an individual lawmaker the most effective, group meals are efficient. As a result, lobbyists spent $4 on group events for every $1 they spent on an individual lawmaker.

The 2013 reforms made an effort to rein in spending on groups, but it’s not clear that is happening. For instance, the law requires the House and Senate ethics committees to approve a list of caucuses eligible to partake in lobbyist-sponsored dinners and limit lobbyists to hosting a single dinner per committee. This year, the Senate failed to approve any and the House committee did not issue its list until six weeks after the session began.

Nonetheless, lobbyists filed expenses for at least 54 such group events without the House committee’s blessing. An Atlanta expert on political law says that unless the per capita cost exceeds $75 per person, such events need no further permission and lobbyists aren’t required to report individually the lawmakers who attended.

Not abnormal, but that's the point. State level political culture isn't changing that much post-2016.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183035: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:14:42 AM

That's why it's so important to change the government's culture locally, by supporting progressive candidates on local and state level elections, and holding elected officials accountable.

[down] I thought that was implied. 😊

edited 15th Apr '17 10:25:48 AM by megaeliz

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#183036: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:21:52 AM

  • Supporting Progressive Candidates who don't have their heads up their own ass

New Survey coming this weekend!
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#183037: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:28:56 AM

[up][up]You'll find no argument from me, but about that[up], The rise of left-wing, anti-Trump fake news

The fact-checking site Snopes told BBC Trending radio that in the past week, for example, they have debunked many more anti-Republican party stories than pro-Republican ones.

One example of an incorrect story is the unflattering, digitally-manipulated image, which suggested that US President Donald Trump had diarrhoea during a recent golf outing. Another falsely suggested that President Trump profited from the US missile strikes in Syria

By using specialist software, the company's researchers then followed readers' online behaviour to get an idea of who and where they were.

"On the left if you're consuming fake news you're 34 times more likely than the general population to be a college graduate," says Green.

If you're on the right, he says, you're 18 times more likely than the general population to to be in the top 20 percent of income earners.

And the study revealed another disturbing trend: the more you consume fake news, the more likely you are to vote. It's "fascinating and frightening at the same time," says Green.

One of the reasons for the growth in liberal fake news is financial.

"Those people who generate this kind of fake news don't care about politics. They just care about generating clicks, and so sometimes they generate similar messages for the right and the left," says Filippo Menczer, a professor of Informatics and Computer Science at Indiana University who runs the fake news tracking site Hoaxy.

"Many people on the left right now are feeling overwhelmed and fearful and unsure of what's going to happen next. While they're scrolling through their information feeds at speed on small mobile phones their critical functions are not kicking in, and they're seeing information that makes them feel immediately connected with other people who think similarly to them. And without doing the usual checks that they would do, they're sharing and very quickly passing on similarly false and problematic content that we were seeing before the election."

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183038: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:32:03 AM

[up] It probably doesn't help that Trump already denounces any news that is unflattering as fake.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183039: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:36:29 AM

Humans like narratives. I do think that it will have less impact than right wing fake news, but still concerning.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183040: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:37:25 AM

[up] It'll only have less impact for now because the right-wingers have a rather considerable head start.

edited 15th Apr '17 10:37:42 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183041: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:42:42 AM

That's without mentioning anti-Democratic left-wing sources, which are increasingly common. Sources will claim to be left-wing yet miraculously spend all their time attacking the DNC or the "Democratic establishment".

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183042: Apr 15th 2017 at 10:52:20 AM

The democrats are a centrist party and seem fairly committed to staying that way outside of a few states, so that's not a contradiction in the slightest.

As far as Sanders tweet goes, I honestly don't care in the slightest* about working with people like Spencer or Cernovich if it means implementing parts of our agenda where our interests actually align, in this case seemingly a healthcare overhaul. Having principles and standards of decency in politics simply sets you up to be a Doomed Moral Victor in the face of someone prepared to cast them all aside for the sake of winning. It's probably a waste of time on his part because the alt-right is every bit as uncompromising as the more troublesome elements of the left and devout centrists.

* Assuming of course this doesn't come at the price of an unacceptable compromise on the far more numerous areas where our interests are totally incompatible.

edited 15th Apr '17 11:06:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183043: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:07:05 AM

When those same "left-wing" news sites consistently defend Trump it becomes a contradiction in terms.

As to your second point—so you're okay with legitimizing Spencer's views? Because that's what working with him does. Sure, you sometimes have to work with bad people to accomplish things. But there's a goddamn line and actual Neo-Nazis are well, well over that line. For a guy who has regularly accused "centrists" of wanting to ally with the extreme right in order to marginalize the left you're now advocating almost the exact same thing—only by suggesting an alliance with not the religious right or even neofascistic figures like Trump, but outright Nazis.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#183044: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:07:48 AM

Yet Hillary was demonized for daring to be in the same room as various Wall Street types. The fact that people like Sanders and Gabbard get a pass for playing nice with Neo-Nazis and dictators is fucking ridiculous.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183045: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:13:41 AM

Also, working with people like Spencer would also be counterproductive. Playing nice with a genocidal Neo-Nazi seems like a pretty good way to alienate voters who aren't white. And a good number who are.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183046: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:13:58 AM

[up][up] I no longer care in the slightest about Clinton have ties with wall street; since the election I've had to reelavulate several of my previous assumptions and question my principles, as you've undoubtedly noticed.

edited 15th Apr '17 11:14:04 AM by CaptainCapsase

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#183047: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:14:33 AM

(from the article Century Eye posted)

"On the left if you're consuming fake news you're 34 times more likely than the general population to be a college graduate," says Green.

If you're on the right, he says, you're 18 times more likely than the general population to to be in the top 20 percent of income earners.

And the study revealed another disturbing trend: the more you consume fake news, the more likely you are to vote. It's "fascinating and frightening at the same time," says Green.

Wow, this says a lot about the state of politics in the US right now. I wonder why people (college graduates and the rich) who are thought by our society to be more intelligent, are more likely to fall for this nonsense. It makes sense that more of them would vote, though, as they're more likely to both have voter I Ds and have strong enough opinions on politics that they're swayed by made up garbage that confirms their worldview. Hell, I'm probably not innocent of it. note 

edited 15th Apr '17 11:19:38 AM by Pseudopartition

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#183048: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:15:43 AM

I'm not talking about anyone in this thread Capsase. I'm just expressing frustration with this apparent trend that Saint Bernie is automatically correct and Hillary is automatically wrong that some people have. The fact is that a lot of people would probably support Bernie if he started adopting more corporate positions just because it's Bernie doing it. It's an annoying double standard that's rooted in the same hero worship that Trump gets.

edit: There's also people like Gabbard who spout Russian and Syrian apologia significantly worse than anything Hillary did. However, since she said nice things about Saint Bernie she gets a pass too and is being suggested as a candidate for 2020 of all things.

edited 15th Apr '17 11:17:09 AM by Kostya

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183049: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:16:03 AM

[up][up] It's because they are normally more well-informed and educated. That leads to confidence. And well, the Con in Con Artist stands for "confidence"...

A good number of Bernie Madoff's victims were well-off and well-educated.

[up] The hero worship thing is endemic to populists in general. Which is one of the reasons I am not comfortable with populism.

edited 15th Apr '17 11:17:47 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183050: Apr 15th 2017 at 11:18:45 AM

[up] It's standard for elected politicians in general; building a cult of personality and running in an election are basically the same thing.

edited 15th Apr '17 11:18:59 AM by CaptainCapsase


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