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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#182401: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:47:41 PM

[up]x4 Just another example: I remember in the mid-90s my hometown church's pastor at the time was convinced that barcodes on items you buy were the Mark of the Beast because somebody examined the numbers on the barcode stripes and they had three sixes in them. Like, not even 666 in order, just at various spots on the barcode number.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:47:54 PM by speedyboris

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#182402: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:49:50 PM

Worked in fast food and there is a remarkably large amount of people who will change their order if the total costs comes up to $6.66.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#182404: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:51:22 PM

And it ain't even three months.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#182405: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:51:45 PM

Dude should've been fired after the inauguration bundle but that's me.

New Survey coming this weekend!
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#182406: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:51:58 PM

It is genuinely bizarre for me, if I want to vote I need ID, if I want to buy liquor, ID, if I want to drive, ID and License, If I want to open a bank account, ID. If I want to stay out all night, ID, if I want to use public healthcare, ID.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#182407: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:53:33 PM

ID is not free and it is not universal and there are a lot of people doing their best to make sure poor minorities don't get ID.

If we make it a requirement to vote then poor minorities are effectively removed from having a say in the government.

Oh really when?
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#182408: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:57:09 PM

Even backwaters in latin america have had universal ID since last century, it makes no sense to me that mass suffrage in the US didn't come with universal ID right off the bat. I am wondering in the historical sense here. What conditions made the mess of a system of today.

Because it keeps the poor from voting.

James Madison said it best:

The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge the wants or feelings of the day-laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe, — when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.

tldr; Protect the rich from the poor or else the poor people will take all the stuff from the rich people.

I mean our Founding Fathers intended only for established white men to vote.

As John Jay said" The men who own the land ought to govern it."

Here's a good response about it I found by googling:

In the 4th century B.C., the greek philosopher Aristotle wrote a book titled, "Politics." In it, he discussed several different ways one might organize government.

Of the models discussed, he noted that democracy was probably best, but it had one fatal flaw: if every person got a vote, and all votes were counted equally, the poor would organize together and take all the wealthy peoples' stuff.

Aristotle's proposed solution was to reduce inequality by creating a welfare state. His reasoning was that if poor have enough to live reasonably well, they won't be sufficiently motivated to organize and take the wealthy peoples' stuff.

James Madison, having read Aristotle's work, was well aware of the flaw in democracy Aristotle identified. He didn't agree with Aristotle's solution, though. He proposed, instead, to structure the system of government in a way that guaranteed the wealthy got to make all the big decisions.

The primary way this was achieved was through the Senate, a small group of unelected (at the time, Senators were appointed) politicians who were loyal to monied interests and would serve very long terms. This provided the hedge against the "Tyranny of the Masses" Madison feared, without having to create the welfare state Aristotle had proposed.

edited 11th Apr '17 1:58:22 PM by MadSkillz

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#182409: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:58:01 PM

Best way to remedy this? Not only restoring the Voter Rights Act (and making it stronger) AND, push for everyone to have their own I.D. like Germany does, and codify it explicitly in Federal Law that its a universal form of ID for all intents and purposes, so if in the low chance the GOP tries to do its ID bullshit AGAIN, there's multiple barriers that prevent them from being successful as they are now.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#182410: Apr 11th 2017 at 1:59:44 PM

And we also need to get minimum wages and other poverty-remedying measures enacted so that, as Aristotle observed, the poor don't feel the need to exercise their franchise to tear down the system.

Note that I am not a subscriber to the democratic fallacy, in which decisions made by the majority are axiomatically superior. The majority are fully capable of being ignorant, ill-informed, and otherwise obnoxious. It's just that there's no alternative that doesn't devolve into some form of oligarchy and autocracy given time.

edited 11th Apr '17 2:01:00 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#182413: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:15:33 PM

Devos also has an expensive security of US Marshals to keep protesters away from her. More taxpayer money paid on this administration.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#182414: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:23:31 PM

Because what's relieving students from crushing debt and preventing defaults every ~30 seconds have to do with an economy (and morality, but I've trimmed back my expectations since last year.) Won't someone please think of the children...

AG (Sessions) to federal prosecutors: Get tough on illegal immigration

U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Tuesday called on federal prosecutors in Georgia and across the nation to take aim at illegal immigration.

In a three-page memo he sent the nation’s U.S. attorneys, Sessions told them to prioritize prosecuting people caught smuggling others into the U.S.; illegally reentering the country after being deported; committing identify theft and document fraud; and assaulting immigration enforcement officers.

“For those that continue to seek improper and illegal entry into this country, be forewarned: This is a new era,” Sessions told U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials during a visit to the southwest border in Arizona Tuesday. “This is the Trump era. The lawlessness, the abdication of the duty to enforce our immigration laws and the catch and release practices of old are over.”

edited 11th Apr '17 2:24:49 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#182415: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:26:14 PM

"“This is the Trump era."

Sessions isn't even trying to act like he doesn't bow and lick Trump's shoes.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#182417: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:40:42 PM

Attorney General Jeff Sessions sent a warning Tuesday to people who break the nation’s immigration laws: If you cross the border illegally, you risk prosecution under the full force of the law.

Speaking from a border port of entry in Nogales, Arizona, Sessions used stark language to announce measures the Justice Department will take to deter illegal immigration, including vigorous enforcement of human smuggling and identity fraud laws.

“For those that continue to seek improper and illegal entry into this country, be forewarned,” Sessions said in remarks prepared for delivery. “This is a new era. This is the Trump era.”

He continued: “The lawlessness, the abdication of the duty to enforce our immigration laws, and the catch and release practices of old are over.”

Sessions’ trip to the border Tuesday brings the focus back to immigration, even if the border wall remains more rhetoric than reality. In his Nogales speech, Sessions stressed the dangers of criminal gangs, whose members “turn cities and suburbs into warzones,” “rape and kill innocent citizens” and — perhaps most relevant to his message — profit from the trafficking of people across the border.

[[quoteblock]]“Depravity and violence are their calling cards, including brutal machete attacks and beheadings,” he said. “It is here, on this sliver of land, where we first take our stand against this filth.

edited 11th Apr '17 2:41:00 PM by MadSkillz

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#182418: Apr 11th 2017 at 2:56:04 PM

Even backwaters in latin america have had universal ID since last century, it makes no sense to me that mass suffrage in the US didn't come with universal ID right off the bat. I am wondering in the historical sense here. What conditions made the mess of a system of today.

If the rest of Latin America is anything like Argentina on this issue, we got universal mandatory male suffrage as a result of massive protests. And it was mandatory because before that happened the people in power pretty much picked and chose who would vote (threatened those who would vote for another candidate, packed the vote by ordering their employees to vote for the ones they wanted to win, etc). Since every male citizen over 18 had to vote (and, of course, eventually women too), there was a need to check that people were voting, so we got universal ID.

As far as I know, in the US, it's more like, since the beginning anyone who wanted to (and was white and male) voted, there was never a need to make sure people would vote, and since there were active attempts to make some people not vote, there were never systems in place to make sure everybody did.

[up][up]Assange is disgusting.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#182419: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:37:06 PM

The Alabama Senate voted for the church to create its own police department:

The Alabama Senate has voted to allow a church to form its own police force.

Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department.

The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.

Critics of the bill argue that a police department that reports to church officials could be used to cover up crimes.

The state has given a few private universities the authority to have a police force, but never a church or non-school entity.

Police experts have said such a police department would be unprecedented in the U.S.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama/articles/2017-04-11/alabama-senate-oks-church-police-bill

"We've got over 30,000 events a year that take place at Briarwood - going on all day, all night, at the school, at the church, at the seminary," Johnston said. "We have to hire policemen all the time. It would be so much easier to have someone on staff."

The High Sparrow is pleased.

edited 11th Apr '17 3:39:54 PM by MadSkillz

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#182420: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:40:15 PM

[up] Oh great. Literal Church Militants. Just what we needed.

edited 11th Apr '17 3:40:44 PM by Bat178

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#182421: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:42:29 PM

Maybe we'll get lucky and it'll backfire A Song of Ice and Fire style

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#182422: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:42:56 PM

I wonder how good the pay is to be a paladin for the church.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#182423: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:45:21 PM

That's what you call hiring a security guard. Unless the very local government is going to the trouble of establishing a police department or hiring out their officers for the church events. In the event of paying a local police department for their services, the police wouldn't be answering directly to the church.

This is very weird, just as a situational thing.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#182424: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:46:38 PM

No, it's not hiring security guards. They're actual police officers.

Here's the bill:

This bill would authorize Briarwood Presbyterian Church, organized as a nonprofit church under Alabama's nonprofit corporation law, to employ police officers under certain conditions.

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED AN ACT

To authorize Briarwood Presbyterian Church, organized as a nonprofit church under Alabama's nonprofit corporation law, to employ police officers under certain conditions.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF ALABAMA:

Section 1. (a) The Board of Trustees of Briarwood Presbyterian Church, organized as a nonprofit church under Alabama's nonprofit corporation law, may appoint and employ one or more persons to act as police officers to protect the safety and integrity of the church and its ministries. Persons employed as police officers pursuant to this section shall be charged with all of the duties and invested with all of the powers of law enforcement officers in this state.

(b) Every police officer appointed and employed pursuant to this section shall be certified by the Alabama Peace Officers Standards and Training Commission and shall meet all of its requirements, including continuing education.

(c) The authority of any police officer appointed and employed pursuant to this section shall be restricted to the campuses and properties of Briarwood Presbyterian Church.

Section 2. This act shall become effective immediately following its passage and approval by the Governor, or its otherwise becoming law.

edited 11th Apr '17 3:47:42 PM by MadSkillz

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#182425: Apr 11th 2017 at 3:47:01 PM

Smite first detect evil later.

Inter arma enim silent leges

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