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Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#182201: Apr 10th 2017 at 10:31:42 AM

[up][up]Oh, that switch has been reset. Glad to hear it.

Neo-Nazi ally and Trump administration official Sebastian Gorka recently suggested partitioning Libya into three states.

A senior White House foreign policy official has pushed a plan to partition Libya, and once drew a picture of how the country could be divided into three areas on a napkin in a meeting with a senior European diplomat, the Guardian has learned.

Sebastian Gorka, a deputy assistant to Donald Trump under pressure over his past ties with Hungarian far-right groups, suggested the idea of partition in the weeks leading up to the US president’s inauguration, according to an official with knowledge of the matter. The European diplomat responded that this would be “the worst solution” for Libya.

Gorka is vying for the job of presidential special envoy to Libya in a White House that has so far spent little time thinking about the country and has yet to decide whether to create such a post.

Libya has been mired in a conflict between two competing governments since the fall of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011 after a Nato-led intervention. As rival jostle for influence and position in Washington on the hitherto neglected issue, sharp differences have emerged over how much say Russia should have in Libya’s fate.

There are fears among some European allies that the White House will reverse the Obama administration’s strong support for the UN-backed Libyan government of national accord, which is based in Tripoli and led by Fayez al-Sarraj.

While the GNA has been seen by some as the best option for achieving stability in the country, it has struggled against a rival government based in Tobruk, eastern Libya, backed by Khalifa Haftar, an anti-Islamist military strongman. Haftar, who would not back partition, has support in some parts of the Egyptian and Russian governments.

In January, he was welcomed onboard the Admiral Kuznetsov, the Russian flagship, as the aircraft carrier sailed along the north African coast. Haftar, a 73-year-old field marshal and former Gaddafi general who later became his bitter opponent, presents himself as a bulwark against Islamism and the Muslim Brotherhood, which makes him appealing to elements of the Trump foreign policy team.

Gorka advocates hardline policies aimed at defeating “radical Islam” and sees the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist group bent on infiltrating the US. As a former Breitbart editor, he is close to Steve Bannon, Trump’s chief strategist, who believes the struggle against radical Islam should be the central theme of US foreign policy. But Bannon’s star is on the wane in the White House and he lost his seat on the national security council last week.

Gorka has alarmed foreign diplomats with his views on Libya’s future. The map he drew on a napkin during the transition period cut Libya into three sections, apparently based on the old Ottoman provinces of Cyrenaica in the east, Tripolitania in the north-west and Fezzan in the south-west.

Mattia Toaldo, a Libya expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations thinktank, said: “This is like a litmus test of how much you know about Libya. If you the only thing you know is that it was cut into three, then it shows you are clueless about the situation in Libya.

Gorka’s rivals for the envoy job include Pete Hoekstra, a former congressman and lobbyist, and Phillip Escaravage, a former US intelligence official who worked on Libya for more than a decade.

Escaravage is generally considered to be the clear favourite to take on the unpaid role. He is believed to have put forward a peace proposal heavily dependent on tens of billions of dollars in western financial support.

At least one European ally has privately expressed frustration at the US state department’s lack of a position on Libya, voicing concerns over Russia’s growing influence.

While separatists who support partition claim that a viable state could be built in eastern Libya, most experts agree that the move would stoke another civil war because the boundaries would be hotly disputed.

Representatives of the Tobruk government, including Haftar, have sought to influence the Trump administration, calling for the US to radically change its position and withdraw support for the Sarraj government.

In a phone interview with the Guardian, Ari Ben-Menashe, an Israeli security consultant based in Canada, whose company has a $6m (£4.9m) contract to lobby on behalf of Haftar and Aguila Saleh Issa, the head of the Libyan house of representatives in Tobruk, said the White House had been “briefed” on Libya and was “willing to play on our terms”.

“There is not going to be a partition,” Ben-Menashe said. “None of them [Trump administration officials] really knew anything about what was going on. They were briefed pretty extensively by us and ... they understand that Sarraj will never work.”

Ben-Menashe said it was understood by the Trump administration that a central Libyan government acceptable to the west and east of the country could be created “in three days” if Russia were more involved. The Trump administration, he added, was “interested in getting the help of Russians and interested in getting them to resolve it”.

Support for the eastern government was growing in parts of Europe, including the UK, Ben-Menashe said. “We have talked to the Brits, the Norwegians, the Swiss. We did a lot of work on this,” he added.

So, how's that "vote your conscience" gig turning out?

edited 10th Apr '17 10:32:09 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#182202: Apr 10th 2017 at 10:33:40 AM

...Pretty sure you're not helping anything, least of all your case, when you unironically use phrases like "drooling rubes".

Not that I disagree on overall principle, but. Just saying.

Trump is like the quintessence of Nouveau Riche. He has a lower class lout's tastes, education, attitudes, and brutality, but with (nominally) more money. He's completely out of his depth in any situation that requires class, refinement, knowledge, or expertise, which is what makes him so appealing to your average prole, and so disastrous as a leader.

edited 10th Apr '17 10:34:21 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#182203: Apr 10th 2017 at 10:34:03 AM

[up]x6 Found it. Courtesy of Business Insider.

edited 10th Apr '17 10:34:37 AM by kkhohoho

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#182205: Apr 10th 2017 at 11:59:22 AM

Ah yes, Boris Johnson. The UK's Trump.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#182206: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:09:31 PM

[up]I wish. The guy actually has an education. And is selectively intelligent. :/

If anything, that makes him worse. Also, not sure if that hair is better or worse. tongue But, it is in the family (the colour and thickness, not the style)... <_<

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#182207: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:14:12 PM

My life is being shaped by people I hate.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#182208: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:15:47 PM

[up] I suspect that's true even at the best of times. But let's not get apocalyptic here. Even if the bombs fall, some of us will live, and civilization will return. And think about how cool it'd be to live in the Fallout universe: power armor, ghouls, super mutants, love in the radioactive firelight...

I plan on dying in the first blasts.

Edit: Fun aside, there's no need to panic, yet. Speak out. Do your best to tell those in power what you feel. Don't passively accept your fate.

edited 10th Apr '17 12:21:04 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#182209: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:30:31 PM

Remember: Trump can't order a first strike on his own authority, and he's haphazardly purging anyone who could back him up because they're also idiots who are failing to deliver politically. And we do know that Trump loves to fire people.

And while Putin is suffering from a significant degree of autocrat echo chamber, he is emphatically not an idiot. So WWIII isn't on the horizon, just more proxy wars and more suffering for Middle Easterners.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#182210: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:44:31 PM

[up]So what you're saying is that by 'real war', the Russians just mean a proxy war, is that it?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#182211: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:46:25 PM

It's probably just bluster to get us to back off of Assad. But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to attack U.S. forces as a test of our resolve. Remember that we have a colossal egotist and a colossal idiot in charge of our military. Who knows how he'd respond?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#182212: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:47:26 PM

[up][up] Or it's just conventional saber rattling, MAD hasn't ceased to exist just because Trump bombed some Syrian airbase. WW3 is incredibly unlikely to occur considering that it would almost certainly result in the destruction of any nation involved.

I understand if people are afraid but let's not fall victim to hysterics.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#182213: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:49:45 PM

I hope "real war" is a mistranslation or something.

Why? Why does Putin care about Syria so much? Why is he such a Bond villain? Why can't people just be nice to each other? Is it so hard? Is it so hard not to be a dick?

I'm sorry. I'm having a break down.

Putin's not an idiot, but he is also proud. Pride is a dangerous thing to wound. Trump also wants to look strong. A desire to be a cool guy can lead to horrible people doing horrible things.

And China's apparently spoken in defense of Syria, probably to say "We got North Korea's back, you know?"

I miss 2015.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#182214: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:52:16 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I know. It's just that half of This Very Wiki is already starting to fall into hysterics,and my Dad's probably going to do the same. (More than he has been anyway.) I always do my best to keep a cool and clear noggin, but it's still like having voices in your head.

edited 10th Apr '17 12:52:33 PM by kkhohoho

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#182215: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:55:26 PM

[up] I understand completely, and fear isn't a problem or even irrational it just becomes harmful when it crowds out reason.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#182216: Apr 10th 2017 at 12:57:08 PM

Syria has always been an extremely important launching point for Russian operations in Africa and the Middle East. Don't write off Putin's investment in this as simple autocratic pride.

Realpolitik is this man's lifeblood. He is a KGB agent remember.

Oh really when?
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#182217: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:00:08 PM

[up] This, plus it's the only access Russia has to warm-water ports in the Mediterraenean that aren't at strategic risk. Crimea is blocked off at the Bosphorus, and the Baltic Sea is blocked by the Nordics and Germany. Any of their arctic harbors run the risk of freezing during the winter.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:00:15 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#182218: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:02:13 PM

[up][up] If anything that supports my point, considering that Realpolitik generally doesn't call for world wars. This absolutely is serious and should be treated as such but it most likely isn't the beginning of the end.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:02:21 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#182219: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:03:54 PM

It's scary when the discretion that we're counting on to prevent World War III is on the other end of the red phone.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#182221: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:04:48 PM

Also that [up][up][up]. Putin is an extremely dangerous and powerful actor but he is a sane one. He's got absolutely no interest in nuclear war or pointless escalation.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:04:59 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#182224: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:14:37 PM

Hmm. This isn't good news. It's not technically U.S. Politics material unless we get involved, but if China's going to solve the North Korea problem once and for all, it could be a net positive as long as South Korea isn't a collateral casualty. They'll need a lot more than 150K troops, though.

edited 10th Apr '17 1:20:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#182225: Apr 10th 2017 at 1:18:01 PM

It might just be China being proactive. I'm pretty sure Kim Jong Un isn't stupid enough to think that he can get away with antagonizing China. While China doesn't really have much force projection capability, North Korea is well within their range. I'm thinking it's China telling North Korea "remember, we can take you out at any time, so sit down and shut up."

edited 10th Apr '17 1:18:36 PM by Zendervai


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