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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181751: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:32:10 AM

[up] Especially since the WH more or less admitted they have no plan to follow up on this. This was a publicity stunt. The chemical weapon attack put Trump on the spot, and he had to do something to avoid looking weak.

edited 7th Apr '17 9:32:42 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#181752: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:32:29 AM

[up][up] And that's not what this strike was intended to accomplish I suspect.

edited 7th Apr '17 9:32:42 AM by CaptainCapsase

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181753: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:39:26 AM

[up][up]Well, congratulations Mr.Trump. You no longer look weak. You instead look like a fucking idiot. (Well, more of one anyway.)

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#181754: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:42:22 AM

When in the history of humanity has bombing, no matter how perfect, well timed and precise, ever served as a deterrent to rulers like Assad?

Hint: Only once. You wanna press THAT button?

...are you attempting to claim that the only time bombing has affected the course of a conflict is Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Seriously?

Limited, targeted intervention has accomplished its goals in the past and can do so now — if it's done properly, with a clear, reasonable goal in mind. I'm not sure that the Trump administration has that last part down (which is important), but suggesting that anything short of nuking them cannot possibly accomplish anything is ridiculous.

edited 7th Apr '17 9:42:37 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#181755: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:49:51 AM

Bosnia.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#181756: Apr 7th 2017 at 9:59:44 AM

So far everything bad which happened in 2017 was the consequence of decisions made in 2016...while the decisions made in 2017 were actually pretty positive so far with Europe pushing back around the far right and a lot of protests actually succeeding.

Anyway, the whole thing with Syria is really convenient for Trump isn't it? No better distraction than some sort of war.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#181757: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:05:41 AM

...are you attempting to claim that the only time bombing has affected the course of a conflict is Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Seriously?

Bosnia

I never said that bombing has no effect on warfare. I simply said it does not deter people like Assad, as even the UN Operations like "Deliberate Force" did not deter the VRS at large. Assad is not someone you can just bully into compliance.

And even Deliberate Force, a high precision multilateral operation done even with knowledge of all actors and the U.N, cost as many civilian lives as it did enemy forces.

We all agree that Trump is an idiot, his bombing was disorganized and full of holes. You can logistically call it a disaster, but praising for his strategy is also wrong. The idea of bombing Assad at this point, in this situation, with all that's been said and done, will not deter his use of chemicals and general civilian oppress related activities.

edited 7th Apr '17 10:10:24 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#181758: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:07:00 AM

The problem is that people really don't want a war. It's like distracting someone from an insult by sending them a package full of bees. Yeah, they probably won't remember the insult now, but they're definitely going to remember the bees and if they figure out who sent it, they won't be happy.

Raddishes Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#181759: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:08:23 AM

So, will the bombing lead up to a war somewhere down the road or is it just Trump being Trump?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#181760: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:10:02 AM

[up][up] didn't you notice the whole "the gift gas attack happened because Obama was too weak and now we have a strong president who acts" narrative which is pushed on social media?

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#181761: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:12:33 AM

[up]x7 Strategic bombing has never, ever worked as an effective overall strategy. Even the atomic bombings were coupled with the Soviet invasion of Manchuria where they rolled over the Japanese defenders.

It didn't break the Brits in 1915, nor in 1940. It didn't break the Germans in 1944. Rolling Thunder did nothing to deter the North Vietnamese. Even the Bosnian campaign was in coordination with ground forces in the region - same with the Gulf War.

This is the mistake planners keep making - we keep assuming that if we just bomb people enough they'll eventually just up and surrender.

Reluctant as I am to say it, the only way to make any kind of change in Syria is to look realistically at the political outcomes, the factions that might be sympathetic to the US ('though there are probably a few EU countries that are going to march in lockstep with America again', he said, trying to stare holes in his Prime Minister's back) and work to build them into a stabilizing force. Which means boots on the ground.

edited 7th Apr '17 10:15:40 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#181762: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:17:44 AM

No no, you see. THESE bombs will work because they are 'MERICAN bombs. They don't cause civilian casualties, destruction of infraestructure, cause resentment on the populace or lower any chance of living people in the region have. These here 'MERICAN bombs only give FREEDOM and whoever tells you otherwise is a damn dirty commie who votes for that SAD loser Crooked Hillary!

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#181763: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:20:41 AM

I am getting the assessments of the missile strikes not doing a lot of damage, Russian media is full of shit as usual, but the damage reports from US sources and OSINT are pretty much stating that most of the targeted areas only had unserviceable aircraft like the Mi G-17s and Mi G-21s and a few other fuel/ammo depots and hangars that may or may not have anything inside.

Anyway, the reports are pretty much stating that while impressive, the attack didn't deal much of a damage on Assad's military. Probably because the early warning the Trump administration gave to the Russians and they certainly relaying that warning to Assad.

So, not only Trump made himself look like a complete stupid hypocrite, his sudden decision pissed off the Kremlin and didn't achieve any tangible military achievements.

[up][up]WWII strategic bombings weren't so much as to break the Germans into surrender but more as a campaign to reduce their military and logistics capabilities from being fully capable of reaching the frontlines. It arguably worked in function that the quality of production decreases, fuel delivery suffered and a lot of resources had to be diverted in order to defend the industrial areas from bombing raids. Though initially just targeting tank and aircraft factories wasn't working as intended but once the USAAF and RAF switched to steel mills and works, fuel refineries and baseline industries then the results became more clear.

I'd say that strategic bombing works if you have a strategy to make it work, as in you have a plan to explore the strategic and tactical openings the strategic bombings offer. Bombing and keep bombing hoping the other side just gives up usually doesn't work, bombing and then launching an operation to exploit the damage done by the bombing usually works.

edited 7th Apr '17 10:26:32 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#181764: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:21:24 AM

Swan check your English, Gift has a very different meaning there 😁

"You can reply to this Message!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#181765: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:26:25 AM

Deadly gas is the gift that keeps on giving.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#181766: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:29:22 AM

[up][up][up] That was the point I was trying to make - bombing doesn't work if you don't have a way to translate the destruction into an achievable political objective.

But people don't read Clausewitz anymore.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#181767: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:34:40 AM

And all I said is that they won't deter Assad. But a nuke would.

Or Batman. Where's Batman?

[up] READING? What are you, some kinda NERD!?

edited 7th Apr '17 10:35:01 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#181768: Apr 7th 2017 at 10:35:53 AM

I feel like those of us who thought 2016 was the worst year ever and 2017 is over here like

"Hold my beer..."

XKCD put it best. "So much of why 2016 was bad was because of the things it sent us into 2017 without."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#181769: Apr 7th 2017 at 11:02:28 AM

Messing with Hannity.

I wonder whether this will catch on.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#181770: Apr 7th 2017 at 11:54:01 AM

Someone beat me to this news but more detail...Senate confirms Neil Gorsuch to the supreme court after historic rules change

Gorsuch was approved by a vote of 54 to 45 after a marathon three-day hearing, a floor debate that included an all-night protest by a Democratic senator and a historic rules change that allowed his nomination to go forward on a simple majority. The White House said on Friday that Trump would swear in Gorsuch on Monday morning.

n a statement on Friday, Trump hailed Gorsuch’s “historic confirmation”, the first supreme court appointment of his presidency, and said he was the “perfect choice” to serve on the country’s highest court because of his “his judicial temperament, exceptional intellect, unparalleled integrity, and record of independence”.

“As a deep believer in the rule of law, Judge Gorsuch will serve the American people with distinction as he continues to faithfully and vigorously defend our constitution,” Trump said.

In the final tally, three Democrats joined Republicans to confirm Gorsuch: Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Joe Donnelly of Indiana. One senator, Republican Johnny Isakson of Georgia, did not vote.

At just 49, the staunch conservative could have a long tenure, though his confirmation restores the ideological tilt of the court, which is often narrowly divided five to four on major decisions.

From the bench, Scalia elevated the judicial theory of originalism, to which Gorsuch adheres.

In his most high-profile decision, Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc v Sebelius, Gorsuch argued that the owners of the multibillion-dollar craft store did not need to comply with a provision of Barack Obama’s healthcare law requiring employers to offer birth control to female employees because it violated their religious beliefs. The decision was upheld, five to four, by the supreme court.

Speaking of distractions...Hardly knew he was involved in that steaming pile of a decision

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#181771: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:04:51 PM

And all I said is that they won't deter Assad. But a nuke would.
And we called shenanigans on that claim, citing several times in history when airstrikes had positive effects in analogous situations.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Proglottid Since: Mar, 2010
#181772: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:17:03 PM

It's depressing that all it takes for a colossal fuckup to be cool with the rest of the world is to join a war and potentially start another

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#181773: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:19:45 PM

I'm not so sure that this is a "loss" for Trump - after all, he was able to enact a retaliatory strike against Assad over the use of chemical weapons with (apparently) very few lives lost, which kind of contradicts the RT propaganda I saw claiming that the strike gave "inadvertent" cover to an ISIS offensive near Palmyra. However, the reason Obama never did it is precisely what we have to wait and watch for - the international response.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#181774: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:25:38 PM

I somehow doubt that the EU countries will be pleased. From an European pov the US is largely responsible for the refugee crisis, since it destabilized the Middle East by launching an unlawful attack on Iraq. They then kept intervening in various countries with not one positive result. The congress kept Obama from acting at the very beginning of the Syria conflict, when there was still a chance to at least set some rules for this conflict. And now Trump is suddenly putting oil into the fire by launching such an ill planed response (not to mention the woman and children he already killed himself)?

Honestly, I will go to the streets if I must to ensure that Germany keeps itself as far out of this mess as possible. We will need all our strength to deal with the fall-out.

edited 7th Apr '17 12:26:25 PM by Swanpride

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#181775: Apr 7th 2017 at 12:52:09 PM

Apparently the missile strikes hardly did any damage.

The runway is still functional and everything else can be repaired in weeks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CT_operative/status/850409170792845314

I believe it did destroy 20 Syrian planes though.


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