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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#181501: Apr 6th 2017 at 6:58:19 PM

Just a reminder: The president can, in fact, order military action without it being an official declaration of war. Obama did it pretty frequently, and I in fact recall a lot of people complaining about it in this thread. The right to legally declare an official war I'm pretty sure still rests with Congress, and Obama went so far as to publicly ask/demand Congress declare such against Syria because the Republicans were making a whole lot of noise about the Syrian situation. Predictably, they declined to actually do so because that would have put the responsibility on them.

Just felt like we needed that reminder of the technical details of what, exactly, is within who's wheelhouse to do.

But yeah, this is a reaction specifically to what Assad did, so I don't know that's going to lead to a larger conflict. It's extremely distressing, though, as it probably doesn't help. There are those who think the attack was Assad testing what the new boundaries are, but I kind of have my doubts.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#181502: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:01:03 PM

[up]X2 The Express can't be trusted, you'll need another source.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:03:08 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#181503: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:01:03 PM

Indeed, the last time the US outright declared war was June 5th, 1942, the targets being (then Axis aligned) Bulgaria, Hungary, and Romania.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#181504: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:02:05 PM

Atm I'm seeing the hardcore Trump supporters calling Trump a traitor. They're starting to leave him.

I'm expecting a further approval drop by next week especially if Trump handles it badly.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#181505: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:02:18 PM

The military is saying that they have no further plans for attacking Syria unless they get new orders from the white house.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181506: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:03:58 PM

Rand Paul is pissed: https://twitter.com/DrRandPaul

Also, Russia apparently weren't warned about the airstrikes, according to CNN and Fox News, and the State Department and key US allies were completely out of the loop about the US strike: https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/850160864497991681

edited 6th Apr '17 7:06:51 PM by Bat178

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#181507: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:04:36 PM

[up][up]The country in general is war weary, for all that we've got disgusting loudmouths talking about just going over there and taking over. A lot of people probably voted for him under the delusion that he wouldn't get us involved in more conflicts. So I'm kind of not really surprised that some of his supporters are quite angry.

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#181508: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:04:42 PM

Just googled the threat and currently the Express is the only source for it.

ETA: Truth be told, we're not going to be done with the Middle East until a united front of democratic states is formed and that ain't happening until somebody kills off the dictators. Either locals or foreigners, that place is nowhere near done with war. We left way too early and if it doesn't fall on us, it's going to fall on Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East to fix that mess.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:06:24 PM by Journeyman

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#181509: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:05:53 PM

This is next level unilateralism, even the fucking military doesn't know what's going now.

This is dangerous.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#181510: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:07:51 PM

Also, in reference to a post further up: Putin's stuck with Trump for now. I'm pretty sure the guy doesn't have the world conspiracy level control over our system just yet to just get rid of Trump now that the guy's in office. Let's not make Putin out to be more powerful than he already is, ok?

Welp, page topper.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:08:16 PM by AceofSpades

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#181511: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:09:14 PM

All that Putin getting rid of Trump talk relies on the idea that he has evidence of Trump doing very bad things to get into office and he can just lay it in the hands of the people who could use the system to get rid of him for Putin.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#181512: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:11:46 PM

I remember in 2003, sitting around in shock and dismay, exchanging messages with friends on a board, all of horrified by what was happening, many of us drinking in depression as the Iraq war started. A lot of us were feeling numb and shellshocked that something impossible and we knew to be horrible was happening.

This is giving me vague flashbacks to that moment.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#181513: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:11:50 PM

  • sigh* Well, my happiness at the action is now evaporated. My original prediction in the Arab Spring thread seems to be coming true. Bah.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#181514: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:12:32 PM

All I can say is, if Putin really does have nothing on Trump, and Trump is somehow not tainted by Russia (even with his Staff clearly being tainted by them), then the next 3 Years are going to be the most tense since the 1950's!

I thought the next Cold War was going to start with the next Democrat President, not under freakin' "I can be friendly with Putin" Trump!

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#181515: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:14:03 PM

Was Congress informed?

Do not obey in advance.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181516: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:14:18 PM

[up][up] Assuming the GOP don't impeach him, since they would have a legitimate reason to now.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:14:27 PM by Bat178

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#181517: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:14:48 PM

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval. 11:14 AM - 29 Aug 2013

If the U.S. attacks Syria and hits the wrong targets, killing civilians, there will be worldwide hell to pay. Stay away and fix broken U.S. 6:55 PM - 2 Sep 2013

WOW. I AM SO SURPRISED. WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:15:27 PM by Eschaton

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#181518: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:14:55 PM

@Shinra: What was the original prediction you're talking about?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181519: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:17:02 PM

The Pentagon just confirmed that Russia was indeed informed about the airstrikes.

edited 6th Apr '17 7:18:08 PM by Bat178

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#181520: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:18:18 PM

[up][up][up]Yes, Trump's tweets criticizing Obama are almost prophetic of how he's doing as POTUS

[up]One good thing at least.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181521: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:18:26 PM

Which prediction is that?

First off, bear in mind that Trump doesnt micro-manage military actions. That's done through the military chain of command, and they wont let him do anything truly dangerous.

Second, get a grip. Russia doesn't really care. Why would they? Their interests in Syria are not being threatened. Of course, Putin has to make some symbolic statements in support of his allies. But he isn't about to take the immense risk of confronting us.

Heavy Russian casualties might have a negative effect on Russian public opinion. Russia might become more confrontational in the weeks and months ahead. But no one is about to attack us.

Finally, if this action saves a few civilians who might have been victims of future chemical attacks, then it can only be a good thing. I wish I believed that this marked a new era of the US taking the plight of Syrian civilians more seriously, and could alter the balance of power there, but I rather doubt that. Trump shows every sign of wanting to smack Assad around a bit, and then he will likely lose interest. Nothing fundamental is likely to change.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#181522: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:19:03 PM

I can't really condemn Trump for this, since it's the kind of thing I'm inclined to support and would have supported if Hillary Clinton had ordered such a strike.

Hard not to see it as an attempt to improve poll numbers though, especially since Trump isn't allowing any Syrian refugees, and this is a 180 from opinions he expressed as recently as like a week ago. And no, I don't believe that this is Everyone Has Standards on his part.

Also, there's no way that any Russians were killed in this. There's no way that he didn't get permission from them first they weren't clued in ahead of time.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#181523: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:20:03 PM

So, a few minutes ago was catching up on a Pokemon game. Get a text from a friend: "Turn on the News, we're at War." WTF? Now we're here. (I might have been imagining far worse when I read that...)
Anyway, I don't think the State Department much exists to be in the loop. OTOH, Trump does seem to have pulled off a sneak attack.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#181524: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:24:52 PM

I TURN AROUND FOR ONE SECOND TO PROCRASTINATE ON MY HOMEWORK AND YOU PEOPLE START BOMBING OTHERS

WHAT THE DEUCE

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181525: Apr 6th 2017 at 7:25:17 PM

I am hearing now on CNN that the US did indeed warn Russia regarding our attacks. In spite of this, they also report that Russians were nevertheless present at the airfield that was targeted anyway.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

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