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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The ACA did help a bunch of them, not that they appreciated it. Or in the case of some of them, even knew that it and Obamacare were the same fucking thing. And globalization isn't what's screwing them. It's things like automation and the oh so precious "free market". The demand for the products they make just isn't what it was anymore.
Hell, the coal industry is arguably only alive today because of increased global trade. China is a big consumer of American coal.
edited 5th Apr '17 9:16:24 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedAs for the WWC 'left behind'; their complaint was never about the ACA or 'Obamacare' since a lot of them loved it. The complaint was that it benefited everyone, rather than benefiting the WWC at the expense of everyone else. A refrain that goes back the the New Deal, with the same fundamental, fundamentally incorrect belief that everything is and must a zero-sum game.
edited 5th Apr '17 9:36:11 AM by ViperMagnum357
From the sounds of things, Bannon is only off the NSC, his position within the West Wing appears to be secure for now.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/politics/steve-bannon-white-house-national-security-council/index.html
That's what I was afraid would happen. Now he can just skulk in the shadows whispering sweet nothings in Trump's ear.
Bannon whispering in a sleeping Trump's ear: "Trump...Trump...Deport the Asians and Indians from Silicon Valley..."
Trump after waking: "...WTF, what are you doing in my bedroom? It's four in the morning!"
edited 5th Apr '17 9:42:16 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnd here we have the Great Lie of Trump supporters and Unicorn Brigaders alike. Obamacare massively dropped the insurance costs of poor whites across every deep red state. Millions of poor whites who previously had no insurance, are covered because of it. Why do you think so many of those same WWC voters, who pushed for Trump's election, suddenly went into a meltdown and started screaming at their representatives when they found out the ACA was going to be repealed? It's because the ACA has massively improved their lives in every meaningful way.
We heard from people at those town halls who talked about how they would now be dead without Obamacare. All those people were poor. Most of them were white. Many of them voted for Trump. And yet they were aghast when he tried to repeal the piece of legislation Obama had passed that would help them the most.
So, the question then becomes, why are you repeating this lie? Is it because you didn't know this? I sincerely hope it's not because you share the outlook of so many of those white voters that the only thing wrong with Obamacare is that it helps minorities too.
And in that article you quote, within the sections you yourself bolded, he lists the American occupation of Japan as evidence of America acting like "The Godfather".
The Empire of Japan declared war on the United States of America, not the other way around. It launched a sneak attack on an American naval base at Pearl Harbour (you may have heard about it) and killed three thousand American servicemen. It then invaded America's possessions in the Philippines, killed thousands more soldiers and sailors in combat, and subjected those that it had captured to nigh unimaginable tortures and deprivations. It also invaded the Aleutian Islands, bringing the IJA and IJN within spitting distance of America's continental possession in Alaska. But sure, Japan was never a direct threat to US interests.
That's not even getting into, mind, what the Japanese did in China, where they murdered somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30 million Chinese (we don't have the full number because even now we're still counting), experimented on captured civilians with the Black Death, engaged in a campaign of genocidal rape unequaled in scale to this day, and scorched a number of cities, including Nanking, off the face of the earth.
I cannot imagine that Chomsky—or you—are unaware of this fact. So, that begs the question: why is he—and why are you?—acting as an apologist for Imperial Japan? Because in trying to equate the Pacific War to the Vietnam War or the Iraq War that's what he is doing, and that's what you are doing in sharing his vapid opinion.
The Empire of Japan was fascistic military junta that wracked up tens of millions of bodies in an insane attempt to conquer all of Asia. It also directly attacked the territory and military of the United States in a way that no other nation has done since the goddamn Confederacy. So, with that in mind, why is Chomsky defending them, and why are you sharing his defense of them with the rest of the thread?
edited 5th Apr '17 9:54:11 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Even ISIS thinks Trump is a idiot: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-islamic-state-idUSKBN17625H
Trump Defends Bill O'Reily Sex Scandal
“I think he’s a person I know well — he is a good person,” said Mr. Trump, who during the interview was surrounded at his desk by a half-dozen of his highest-ranking aides, including the economic adviser Gary Cohn and Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, along with Vice President Mike Pence.
“I think he shouldn’t have settled; personally I think he shouldn’t have settled,” said Mr. Trump. “Because you should have taken it all the way. I don’t think Bill did anything wrong.”
Of course the serial sexual assaulter doesn't think another sexual assailer did anything wrong.
New Survey coming this weekend!Yeah, does there have to be an "endpoint" for progressive ideology? The overall moral/philosophical goal, if one must express it in broad terms, is for everyone to have a level playing field with which to seek achievement to the best of their ability.
This means that unfair advantages due to inherited wealth, socioeconomic privilege, institutionalized prejudice, capitalistic rent-seeking, cronyism, corruption, and whatnot need to be eliminated to the maximum extent possible.
Also, Ambar's essay there about Imperial Japan deserves as many
and
as I can give it.
edited 5th Apr '17 9:59:38 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"As for where the Democrats can go-create jobs through infrastructure. Real infrastructure, not kickbacks for companies-the US is crumbling, and this is the perfect fix to get everyone on board politically with new jobs. While you may not win over voters with philosophical or even practical solutions, most people will have a very strong reaction to something visceral-and few things are as visceral as cracking your teeth on a pothole or tripping over a shattered concrete walk. One recurring element from all these interviews with Trump supporters is complaints about everyday problems they imagine the Republicans will fix, like dangerous roads falling apart. Hardly heroic, but whatever works to get them to sit home instead of voting for another charlatan promising to fix highly visible problems.
Would also be a good way to permanently increase jobs-infrastructure needs to be maintained and updated constantly, and is needed everywhere. As for construction jobs, union jobs tend to pay well and non-union jobs tend to have plenty of extra hours and overtime available for decent pay. Also one of the few industries left where you can walk on with little or no experience and work your way up, and get specialized training paid for if you prove capable.
Just need to bundle it with more legislation to close the loopholes abused by companies; like additional protection for seasonal/pickup work like that atrocious 90-day benefit rule, and stop companies from buying a brand new fleet of equipment they do not need as a write-off instead of paying their taxes in full.
The problem is that economic inequality is inevitable- the simple truth is that not everyone can live a comfortable western existence. We don't pay doctors and garbage collectors the same amount, for example (and good reason.) Everyone has different skills, so yes, there will be inequals.
edited 5th Apr '17 10:03:03 AM by justhelping
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Neither of those two statements were a necessary or obvious outcome of my statement about progressive values.
First, perfect equality is obviously impossible; one can only hope to get close enough that individual variance can hold more sway than inherited privilege.
Second, a "Western standard of living" is not implied, nor even desirable as a discrete goal. Rather, we would like to see the billions of people currently in subsistence poverty offered a reasonable chance to escape it, while people in Western nations do not need to worry about housing, education, transportation, health care, and other staples of the First World.
You insist on strawmanning progressivism to sound like Marxism, when it is not even close.
edited 5th Apr '17 10:04:24 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
x4:And yet, is this true? There is plenty of evidence that we may be staggering in a direction where that is possible, at least technology and resource-wise, which begs the question, if and when that is within reach, what are we prepared to do as a society to get there and push our socio, economic and even psychological boundaries.
x3:You laugh, but go back and read how many interviews swerve to everyday problems people base their decisions around-emotional components are the core of most peoples' decision making, and expoilting that psychologically is why the GOP has such a firm grip on their cultists.

Anyone have a link to that list of policies the Obama WH and Congress set up for the WWC before the Republicans shut down Congress? I know I've seen it before.
It's been fun.