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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#181101: Apr 5th 2017 at 4:09:03 AM

If I read it correctly, then it means that Trump actually would ban anyone who isn't American at all to enter the USA?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#181103: Apr 5th 2017 at 4:31:21 AM

[up] Especially if they only do it for the MONAH.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#181104: Apr 5th 2017 at 4:38:50 AM

The revivial of Trump don't care is not getting anywhere. Who'd of thought?

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/327347-late-night-obamacare-meeting-leaves-no-signs-of-progress?amp

What democrats want in Shutdown fight.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/327337-what-democrats-want-in-shutdown-fight?amp

edited 5th Apr '17 5:16:53 AM by megaeliz

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#181105: Apr 5th 2017 at 5:27:54 AM

I legit screamed after reading this article.

Coal country's message to Trump: We want jobs of the future

Tyra Johnson grew up in coal country. She was never a miner, but she feels a part of the "tribe."

Her childhood memories are filled with trains laden with coal. They passed right through her hometown of Beattyville, in eastern Kentucky. She recalls how the trains were so loud that the Sunday preacher had to pause his sermon until they rumbled by.

Today those coal trains are mostly a memory. Kentucky had 35,000 mining and logging jobs in 1990. Now there are only 11,000. It's a similar trend nationally. Over two-thirds of the coal jobs have disappeared since the late 1980s.

"We will put our miners back to work," President Trump proclaimed last week as he signed executive orders to encourage more use of coal (and other fossil fuels), rolling back President Obama's initiatives to stop climate change and global warming.

Trump was aiming his message at places like Beattyville, which earned the nickname "America's poorest white town" and desperately needs jobs. Coal country voted heavily for him.

But the people of Beattyville — and the hills around it — aren't all cheering Trump's recent actions. There's a deep rift in the area about whether it's wise to bring back the coal jobs. People worry about what it will do to tourism, the land and their health. Some see coal as a job of the past, not the future.

If only there was a Presidential candidate who actually said she wanted to bring new jobs into Coal Country. If only there were things called.... debates. Where said candidate explained in detail about what she wanted to do to get them "jobs of teh future." Imagine all the things they could learn when they give even half the attention that they demand from everyone else.

So yeah, still no sympathy or empathy.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#181106: Apr 5th 2017 at 5:54:28 AM

This is so aggravating. Not only is Trump literally the embodiment of everything these people feared from Clinton...what they're demanding from him is literally what she was offering.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#181107: Apr 5th 2017 at 5:56:02 AM

Well that pretty much confirms that these people will never vote Democrat doesn't it? We offer them exactly what they ask for and they'll vote for Republicans anyway.

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#181108: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:04:03 AM

I think it was because all they heard was JOBS JOBS JOBS from Trump without bothering with getting into what he was really proposing.

This was pretty much the standard reaction of everyone who voted Trump and forgot to check his VP or the policies behind his speeches.

Now, since they are all a bunch of suckers from voting Trump, the only job they will get from Trump is getting to give him a blowjob.

edited 5th Apr '17 6:04:20 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#181109: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:05:14 AM

[up]x4 On that topic, with the article you linked earlier, the (top pick/newspaper pick) comments are as worth reading as the story:

    Comments on "In Trump Country, Shock at Trump Budget Cuts, but Still Loyalty" 
  • What mixed feelings I had as I read this column! As a blue dot in a red state, I am bewildered that most of my relatives, friends, and acquaintances voted for a man who is so deeply flawed, a man whose interests seem—to me, at least—totally at odds with the interests of his supporters. I disagree with the people who voted for Trump, but I do not mock them or wish them ill, partly because their future is mine, too. What I do wish is that they are able to be honest (or eventually become honest) and admit that his plans do not include improvement of their lives. It may be too much to ask that they will ever come to admit that Trump never intended to make their lives better—or to Make America Great Again.
  • I can't get through a single day without saying and/or hearing the phrase "Elections have consequences."
  • The old line about tragedy and comedy being closely related comes to mind. Yet, I refuse to mock these people and fall into the trap set for liberals by the far right. I have nothing but sympathy for these poor souls and I wish there was some way of reaching them and making them understand that all of the programs slated to be cut or eliminated were implemented by progressives. Alas, I fear there is virtually nothing to change many minds brainwashed by decades of reactionary propaganda. The silver lining in all this is in the numbers: three percent of over 60 million Trump votes is almost 2 million and enough to ensure a different outcome next time. At least we can hope.
  • It's the same old thing. Please don't cut the programs that benefit me. Cut the programs that benefits others.
  • I'm sitting in Canada as I read this column, surrounded by Canadians who are aghast at the stupidity of Americans who voted for Trump and all he represents. Why, they ask, do Americans support a proven liar, sexual predator, bankrupt businessman, and possible treasonous president? It is unthinkable to them that one would speak in praise of a president who actively works to harm large swaths of humans. Many writers have labeled Trump voters as "stupid". The Canadians I've talked with on my trip have a different label for Trump supporters: cruel, without any trace of compassion for others. I cannot disagree.
  • I am struck by the fact that all of the Trump voters in your piece don't want cuts to programs that changed their lives, yet they seem willing to cut programs that serve and lift up others. The conundrum they are facing is the fact that each of us is someone else's other. The test of good citizenship is not service or loyalty to, or even "standing behind" the president, but rather honoring our commitment to our fellow citizens—those others who constitute our nation—regardless of the personal benefit to ourselves. As a progressive, I am proud that agencies and organizations supported by our government (and my taxes) have offered life-changing services to these folks in their times of need, but I find it extraordinary that they would express a willingness to vote again for a man of enormous wealth and privilege who knowingly chooses to cut funds for these very same services, effectively denying the same life-lines to others. What kind of nation are we that we would consent to abandon our fellow citizens in need, while supporting tax cuts for the richest among us? To borrow from Ms. Hays, "We have to look at what we spend money on," indeed!
  • Out here where the tall corn grows denial runs deep. From my fellow physicians and the local attorneys to the farmers and the Walmart workers everyone is staying strong for Trump. These are not stupid people. They are not liars. Like all of the rest of us they are reluctant to admit they made a mistake. In the past couple of weeks there have been subtle changes. They now have a faraway look, they speak less and their faces are beginning to twitch. They may be starting to realize that the choice they made can now only lead to catastrophe.
  • When otherwise sensible people fall victim to a con man, many are so ashamed that they hesitate to report the crime to the police. Plain and simple, it's humiliating to be taken for a fool. Trump's voters are starting to have the same realization: they've been conned by a common huckster masquerading as someone with actual ability to solve problems and lead this country. Every day they're faced with mounting evidence they've been had. Rather than their embarrassment being limited to exposure in front of their close friends and family, as might be the case with a garden variety con, Trump's gross ineptitude, dishonesty, ignorance and cruelty exposes these voters as suckers — on the national stage. I'm not surprised few of these voters are willing to publicly admit how foolish they were in casting a vote for a con man. The humiliation in publicly admitting one has been swindled, especially when one was warned so clearly on so many occasions, is a strong incentive double down and insist the whole thing can't possibly be a con.
  • I've been telling my political science professor from overseas all semester he's wrong about Trump voters abandoning him as Trump makes their lives worse. People would rather let their kids go without better lives if it means they don't have to admit they've been wrong for the past 30 years. How many more election cycles is it going to take for Democrats to come up with a real strategy instead of campaigning on the truth I wonder?
  • '"If I lose this job I'll sit home and die." But I'll vote for Trump again in 2020. Unless, of course, his policies kill me before then.' And progressives are supposed to be respectful and understanding of people who are suffering- and whose suffering is made worse by the President they've imposed upon all of us? Sorry to say so but the words "stupid" and "ignorant" remain there at the tip of my tongue and so very hard to repress even as I search in vain for reasons to be sympathetic. Will the rest of us ever get our country back if we think badly and speak badly of folks like Judy Banks? Perhaps not but, on the other hand, things could hardly get any worse.
  • That's mostly fiction about your parents and grandparents, unless you are really old. The goverment stepped in and saved dust bowl farmers and northwest agriculture in the 1930's. It build dams, hired people during the recession (WPA) and funded all kinds of public works. Then there was WWII: best economy in decades, all goverment going into debt to buy he things we used to win the war, so while it was honest work, it was government subsidized and in a period of deficit spending. Then, the interstate highway system, airports and construction to house the post war baby boom (including me). In there, throw social security starting in the New Deal, huge agriculture bills which propped up farmers, especailly as it turns out agra-business. Don't forget the cold war and the space race, all government piling money into the economy, hring people at taxpayer expense. You opposed to government "largesse"? Fine. But get your history down. Your parents and grandparents lived in an economy that put plenty of government money into their pockets, and if not theirs, the people who hired them.
  • "Would have Hillary really been an improvement..." Yes, she would have. This article is very specific. They are talking about specific budgets, programs and organizations that do things like provide jobs to retirees or protect people in domestic abuse situations. Clinton would NOT have wiped those programs out of existence in order to build a wall, or increase the military budget by 10%. Yes, she probably would have worn her Ralph Lauren pantsuits and spoken in educated English. And that might have annoyed or alienated them. But they'd have had the jobs they needed and the protection from abusive spouses. I hope the DE Ms can begin to understand the importance of appearances to a whole lot of people in this country.
  • I have a confession to make. In the early days after the election, I felt some sympathy for these types of voters. That was a moment of weakness that I will ensure never happens again. This piece BTW is yet another nail in the coffin for the "economic anxiety" theory. There is thinly veiled and frequently overt bigotry evident with these voters. The gratuitous reference to "Obama Phones" by a person who Mitt Romney might have called a "taker", cannot be described as anything but racism. In other interviews, older white voters in the Midwest dependent on the ACA Medicaid expansion made similar derogatory comments about "inner city people" for the growing Medicaid impact on the budget. I'm skeptical that such voters can ever be won over by merely addressing economic concerns. Save the life buoys. Let these people drown in their pools of hate.
  • So, in essence, they're totally tone deaf to their own plight in any sense of community. "The government must help me, but screw everyone else, especially those different from me."
  • Conservatives are driven by a sense that they are part of a special community of real Americans united against a threat from those people - blacks, gays, liberals, Prius drivers, intellectuals and foreigners. Devotion to the community means believing in the same articles of faith as their family and friends - breaking with the Trump orthodoxy means breaking with their community which explains their agony when reality threatens their beliefs. This belief in their world under assault drives their hatred and vitriol towards Democrats and automatic acceptance of completely different rules applied to "us" -lies and crimes by those avowing fealty to the community and those outside. Thus Hillary's emails are treason while colluding with the Russians must be in the best interests of real Americans. As with all subjects of faith, it may be far easier for the typical Trump voter to make up reasons why someone else is to blame than to break with their beliefs. Facts will have little affect. The average Trump voter doesn't really know or care whether Obama is from Kenya, global warming is real, what Benghazi was, or that coal hasn't been more than 5% of even West Virginia's jobs for a lifetime - they believe because these are articles of faith in their community.
  • Middle America and Confederate America have long been captured by the Grand Old Plantation system which, regardless of pigmentation, always fostered a religious worship of rich plantation owners, rich businessmen and the 'boss', and relegated everyone else to the status of lowly, grateful slave-wage worker. That Plantation syndrome runs deep in America and leads local yokels to be 'company' voters who hate regulation and any 'government' interference with the golden sugar daddies who give them their daily bread. It's all a variation of Stockholm Syndrome that has led rural white America to side with their Good Old Boy abusers who have been economically abusing them for years with non-living wages, non-existent benefits, underfunded public schools and a shared belief in an imaginary good who blesses their grinding daily poverty with hellfire, brimstone and the company picnic. Trump Syndrome is Stockholm Syndrome featuring:
    • Positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser
    • Negative feelings by the victim toward family, friends, Democrats, or others trying to rescue them or let them know they've been scammed
    • Positive feelings by the abuser (Trump) toward the victims ('I love the poorly educated')
    • Support of the abuser's behaviors, reasons and bizarre explanations by the victim while helping the abuser (“I will stand behind my Groper-In-Chief.”)
    • Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release (“I don’t think I re-evaluate Trump")
    • White slaves.
    • Sad !
More than sure that vilifying Trump voters isn't a failure of party strategy so much as a reflection of the national mood. I suspect we'd need a living saint to rally Dem voters and reconcile Trumpists without those two objectives blowing each other up.

edited 5th Apr '17 6:06:10 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#181110: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:11:41 AM

Again, rural whites will set themselves in fire just to see minorities get burned and white supremacy is maintained.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181111: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:26:25 AM

Even if they are finally starting to think they were conned, many of them are probably not going to admit it any time soon. They're going to hunker down and snap at anyone who tries to call them out on it because it's so hard to admit to being fooled.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#181112: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:28:19 AM

What's more likely to happen is that they'll turn on Trump for having failed their belief system. Never mind that fulfilling it is impossible; they'll just move on to the next candidate who promises it and makes it sound good.

"Our ideology can never fail; it can only be failed."

edited 5th Apr '17 6:28:51 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181113: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:31:08 AM

[up] Yeah, ideologues are so invested in ideology that they will never admit to any flaws in it, even if it has so far never worked out in real life even once.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#181114: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:32:22 AM

I mean, that helps sane people if Trump (or someone who can't detach themselves from him, like Pence) runs in 2020. If they stay home/vote 3rd party, and the Obama/Clinton (and even Kerry/Gore) voters who went for Trump go back to the Dems, the Rust Belt (and possibly Florida and North Carolina) go Blue again.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#181115: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:35:00 AM

The people interviewed in that article are perfect examples of why the idea that Trump voters can be swayed into voting blue next election or can consider different perspectives if we just talked to them nicely is for the most part a bunch of naive crock.

edited 5th Apr '17 6:35:33 AM by PhysicalStamina

i'm tired, my friend
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#181116: Apr 5th 2017 at 6:57:49 AM

Oh, the hard core Republicans are for the most part a lost cause. I'm talking about the independents and erstwhile Democrats who went for him this time, there's hope for them. They may not admit their mistake, but once they see that Trump isn't bringing back the jobs he promised they'll turn on him.

And maybe voters who stayed home last year won't repeat their mistake even if the Democratic candidate is slightly imperfect.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#181117: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:03:11 AM

Yeah, no. Those "economically anxious" voters shat their bed, they can lie in it until they get septic bedsores. Or something.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#181118: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:24:55 AM

I expect a lot of them will be just disillusioned with Trump failing them and either vote third party or stay home, which still helps.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#181119: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:29:18 AM

I believe that the most effective way to reach these people is through economic prosperity. That means that we need Democrats in national office, since Republicans will never actually do anything to improve the lot of the working class. So, paradoxically, we need these people not to vote so they will get elected officials who'll help them.

edited 5th Apr '17 7:37:46 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#181120: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:49:25 AM

...Why most people here are all skeptic of Republicans being capable of redemption?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#181121: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:50:44 AM

Because all too many of them are demonstrably entrenched in a "DEMOCRATS BAD!" mentality. As a result, the most important trait of any candidate they see if whether their name has an extra R or an extra D.

edited 5th Apr '17 7:52:08 AM by sgamer82

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#181122: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:55:26 AM

[up] Still, I believe there's still hope among them.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#181123: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:57:31 AM

[up] Maybe, maybe not. Either way I'm not certain any words from a librul is going to make a difference at this point. Especially if the mass denial described above is accurate.

edited 5th Apr '17 7:57:41 AM by sgamer82

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#181124: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:57:59 AM

[up] Because our Republicans, our "conservatives," are beyond hope. Next election we're becoming a one-party state.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#181125: Apr 5th 2017 at 7:58:00 AM

Once again, it's not all Republicans. (#NotAllRepublicans?) But as the articles referenced earlier discuss, there is an information bubble — an enclave of epistemic closure — in "white working class" America that is fanatically committed to the narrative that Democrats want to take from them and give to minorities/women/immigrants/etc., and that only Republicans will represent their economic and cultural interests.

This narrative is mind-bogglingly false, but investigation after study after inquiry has shown that they will not change their minds about it no matter how much evidence is thrown in their faces. So we have to find ways to break their trust in their own party's leadership so they will stay home on election days and allow rational leaders to take power.

Otherwise our "democracy" will devolve in the face of increasingly spectacular Republican failures.

edited 5th Apr '17 8:00:16 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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