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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#181077: Apr 4th 2017 at 8:41:53 PM

I wonder if Keith is right in this case. He suggested that they may already have a case against Donald Trump, so they don't need Flynn,

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#181078: Apr 4th 2017 at 8:47:39 PM

Now it all adds up to whether Comey is willing to take one for his team or not. Otherwise, he may see the pragmatism in bringing down Trump and being able to claim what a hero he is for doing so in order to distract from his role in allowing the man to win the presidency in the first place.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181079: Apr 4th 2017 at 9:11:49 PM

Looks like the US is extending it's extreme vetting to more than just Muslims, including fellow Americans who wish to travel:

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181080: Apr 4th 2017 at 9:16:34 PM

[up] It seems like this isn't targetting US citizens (yet...) but visitors to the USA. Including ones from European allies like France and Germany. Which of course is going to further screw the USA's tourism.

Also, I'm not exactly thrilled that this is from TYT (I've been soured on them for a while) or that the linked source in the vid description is the Wall Street Journal (fuck Murdoch — also, there's a subscriber-only paywall thing).

This is kind of personal for me since I have plenty of family members who aren't US citizens who might on occasion want to visit relatives in the USA. The notion that they might be subjected to this sort of dehumanizing and degrading "vetting" in the future...

As if I needed any more reasons to dislike Trump.

Edit:

Going back to Chomsky...didn't he also support and admire Chávez? Wonder how the Venezuelan tropers feel about that.

edited 4th Apr '17 9:29:17 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181082: Apr 4th 2017 at 9:57:43 PM

[up]WOW. That man's made of stern stuff. I would've needed a potty break by now. This man needs a Goddamned salute.tongue

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#181083: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:06:46 PM

So they're actually talking through this filibuster? I thought that wasn't an actual requirement anymore.

edited 4th Apr '17 10:06:53 PM by sgamer82

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181084: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:07:31 PM

[up][up][up] And of course the comments attracted a bunch of hypocrites deriding him for being obstructionist. *cough* Garland *cough*

edited 4th Apr '17 10:07:43 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181085: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:07:43 PM

[up][up]'Taking through'?

edited 4th Apr '17 10:08:09 PM by kkhohoho

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#181086: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:08:14 PM

Typo I've since fixed. Meant talking.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#181087: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:09:04 PM

[up]Okey-dokey. Sorry about that. This thread moves so darn fast.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#181089: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:33:37 PM

I'm still unsure as to people will respond the removal of the filibuster.

From my perspective, the smartest thing for Republicans to do would be to fully embrace removing the filibuster, openly brag about it and how it will allow them to push their agenda unobstructed. But the way they're acting so reluctant and regretful about it is just bizarre to me.

Blaming the Democrats for getting rid of the filibuster could come back to bite Republicans, because a lot of people have absolutely no fondness for congressional bureaucracy and "rules." For many, the filibuster is a prime representation of obtuse formality gunking up the legislative process, time that could be spent improving people's lives, and the ruling party claiming that the opposition forced them to clean house is odd. Of course, Republicans will continue talking about how they're trying to be the "mature" and "responsible" ones, but that's pretty damn laughable considering who's president, and he's still more liked than they are!

Or at least, that's how I would spin it.

On the other hand, Democrats are the ones actually using the filibuster at the moment, which obviously doesn't fly with people who still care about "propriety" and just want to go back to business as usual by confirming Gorsuch. But fuck those people.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181091: Apr 4th 2017 at 10:39:42 PM

[up] Thanks for that.

I also reiterate my contempt for Trump and his dumbass nativist bigoted fearmongering xenophobic adminstration.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#181093: Apr 4th 2017 at 11:30:38 PM

This was back in the 70's and 80's. As of the early 90's, he's acknowledged the scale of the Cambodian genocide.

And yet still engages in "but America!" in his continued insistence that the only reason anyone paid attention to the Cambodian genocide was to distract from what was happening in Indonesia.

Wait, wtf? Chomsky tried to downplay the fucking Killing Fields of Cambodia with cries of "But America"?!

Chomsky, and certain elements on the fringe left, have consistently tried to downplay the crimes of Communist dictatorships, ranging from Castro to Stalin and Mao themselves. We once had someone show up in this thread to insist that Castro was a "hero" for fighting the South Africans in Namibia and Angola, ignoring the very real bodycount of the Communist Angolan government in the process (I should make clear that no, said bodycount does not make the South Africans the good guys; if there was ever a war in which both sides royally deserved one another it was that one).

Some people seem to wake up one morning, discover that America is not a historic force for pure good in the world, and then decide that it's the opposite and they are a force for pure evil, and that therefore everyone who has opposed America is good. Most of them grow out of it by second or third year university. Chomsky never has.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181094: Apr 5th 2017 at 12:16:02 AM

[up]

Some people seem to wake up one morning, discover that America is not a historic force for pure good in the world, and then decide that it's the opposite and they are a force for pure evil, and that therefore everyone who has opposed America is good.

Chomsky and others on the fringe just seem prone to zealotry. They grow up thinking America is the best thing since sliced bread, and are all about the apple pie, baseball, and the Red White & Blue. Then they learn about America's less proud moments. Rather than moderate their past views they go full on opposite. Then they're all about America being the Great Satan while the likes of Castro and Chávez are held up as saints.

...Okay that's a severe and unfair exaggeration of Chomsky. He did after all endorse HRC during the 2016 election. Though he still framed it in a Lesser of Two Evils manner which doesn't really help that much.

Edit:

Also, downplaying Mao Zedong's atrocities and mistakes?! Who does that? His Great Leap Forward was a fucking disaster that led to millions starving to death and the way he manipulated his country's youth into becoming his thugs as the Red Guard was beyond the pale.

edited 5th Apr '17 12:34:52 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181095: Apr 5th 2017 at 12:21:23 AM

[up] America pretty much IS the Great Satan now with Trump, Bannon and the GOP in charge, especially with stuff like that Extreme Vetting getting put in place.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181096: Apr 5th 2017 at 12:23:57 AM

[up] Yeah, no. We're not going down that road just because we've got a bunch of assholes in charge right now. There are still plenty of decent Americans.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#181097: Apr 5th 2017 at 1:01:13 AM

Yeah, no. We're not going down that road just because we've got a bunch of assholes in charge right now. There are still plenty of decent Americans.

Chomsky and the fringe left never thought Americans were bad just that America's foreign policy operates based off of the mafia principle with America as The Godfather. It's the elites leading the country that are awful.

So the assholes that kiss the ring like Israel, Saudi Arabia, the banana republics, Pinochet's Chile, Saddam's Iraq during the 80's and the rest are to be adored.

And the assholes that spurn us like Cuba, Iran and Venezuela are to be isolated and subject to decades long torture.

I mean look at how badly we mocked France when they wouldn't join the Iraq War with us. We even tried to rename French Fries to Freedom Fries. Now that's really that bad especially compared to what we have done to the rest of the world but we probably would've been much fiercer if they were a weak country. The US is extremely petulant when other countries don't do what we want.

One place to go for making sense of this executive order is a book Noam Chomsky published in 2010, where he proposed the notion of ‘mafia principle’ in US foreign policy.

The idea is rather simple: like any other mafia organization, nothing riles up the godfather more than defiance. Apart from hurting his ego, successful defiance might be noticed by other discontented parties, and embolden them into action. So when someone defies in that world, the godfather does not suffice to put them down. He tries to make a lesson out of them, so that, as Iranians say, others keep their swords in the sheath. The history of US invasions comes down to this mentality: Japan, Vietnam, Iraq, all were punished, not because any of them posed a threat to US national security, but for their stubborn disobedience.

As to the travel ban, if one thing holds the banned countries together, it is their defiance to the US hegemony in the world in different periods: Islamic republic in Iran, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Assad family in Syria, Omar al-Bashir in Sudan, Yemen after Houthi resurgence. Some of them have already been severely punished: the US army decimated Iraq and turned Libya into a failed state, Sudan and Iran have suffered the most brutal economic sanctions in history. They have little else in common, and none has ever been a direct national security threat to America.

The leniency towards Iraq in the updated version should be understood in this context: fighting ISIS as reason for the exemption makes no sense, because in that case Iran would have been off the list too. What distinguishes Iraq is the way the Iraqi government negotiated over the ban: first, Iraqi prime minister Haidar Al-Abadi in a phone call ensured Trump that his country remains neutral in regional conflicts, and then Iraq agreed to hand over private information of its citizens to the US for background check. In other words, one of the rebels in the mafia world comes around and makes up with the godfather. Exemption from punishment is his reward.

Capone-style sentimentality

American governments, democrats and republicans alike, have displayed a discernible style of breaking defiance: a strange mix of massive brutality at start, and ensuing sentimentality, poured lavishly on villains when they are on their knees. Take Japan and Vietnam: when the godfather makes sure that the villain is devastated, he comes over, give the defeated a pat on the back, helps them up, and calls them allies. No wonder that, of all candidates, Al Capone grew to become the mythical figure of American mafia: a man at ease with murdering everyone he deemed enemy, while eager to help out the families of the victims and contribute to charities.

Now the American voters have elected the closest thing to an actual mafia godfather into office: a brutal billionaire with a checkered past who, to mention only one attribute he shares with a mafia godfather, hides his tax record in his vault. He seems like a gangster boss straight out of a Martin Scorsese film: vulgar, ruthless, dishonest, thin-skinned. He has already shown incredible penchant for revenge, and huge eagerness for mafia-style retaliation.

In that context, Donald Trump is not an aberration. He is the extreme manifestation of an existing foreign policy doctrine - ‘mafia principle’ – and he is determined to release the whole potential of its violent core. The ban is only the beginning: the new godfather on the block will go out of his way to crack down on all forms of defiance, domestically or internationally.

edited 5th Apr '17 1:10:45 AM by MadSkillz

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#181098: Apr 5th 2017 at 1:13:40 AM

[up] Not to mention he does supposedly have actual Mafia ties.

edited 5th Apr '17 1:13:54 AM by Bat178

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#181099: Apr 5th 2017 at 1:31:48 AM

Phil Ochs' song about America being the cop of the world comes to mind:

Come, get out of the way, boys

Quick, get out of the way

You'd better watch what you say, boys

Better watch what you say

We've rammed in your harbor and tied to your port

And our pistols are hungry and our tempers are short

So bring your daughters around to the port

'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

We pick and choose as we please, boys

Pick and choose as we please

You'd best get down on your knees, boys

Best get down on your knees

We're hairy and horny and ready to shack

We don't care if you're yellow or black

Just take off your clothes and lie down on your back

'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

Our boots are needing a shine, boys

Boots are needing a shine

But our Coca-cola is fine, boys

Coca-cola is fine

We've got to protect all our citizens fair

So we'll send a battalion for everyone there

And maybe we'll leave in a couple of years

'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

Dump the reds in a pile, boys

Dump the reds in a pile

You'd better wipe of that smile, boys

Better wipe off that smile

We'll spit through the streets of the cities we wreck

We'll find you a leader that you can't elect

Those treaties we signed were a pain in the neck

Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

Clean the johns with a rag, boys

Clean the johns with a rag

If you like you can use your flag, boys

If you like you can use your flag

We've got too much money we're looking for toys

And guns will be guns and boys will be boys

But we'll gladly pay for all we destroy

'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

Please stay off of the grass, boys

Please stay off of the grass

Here's a kick in the ass, boys

Here's a kick in the ass

We'll smash down your doors, we don't bother to knock

We've done it before, so why all the shock?

We're the biggest and toughest kids on the block

And we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

And when we butchered your son, boys

When we butchered your son

Have a stick of our gum, boys

Have a stick of our buble-gum

We own half the world, oh say can you see

The name for our profits is democracy

So, like it or not, you will have to be free

'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys

We're the Cops of the World

edited 5th Apr '17 1:33:34 AM by MadSkillz

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#181100: Apr 5th 2017 at 1:53:15 AM

I followed his page in AJE, but at the course of the Syrian civil war his pieces were blind to the impact of whoever isn't the US in the whole conflict.

I mean, that would be in the spirit of his 'history' of the Vietnam War where he made claims about the South Vietnamese government without actually consulting any Vietnamese scholarly works, in English or in the original language.

Or that time he argued that the Stalin Note would have TOTALLY WORKED YOU GUYS and it's the West German government's fault reunification took 50 years.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

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