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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180826: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:37:34 PM

[up] Do you have any better ideas other than staying the course and hoping everything blows over and people come to their senses? Trump's election is as clear a sign as any that the party needs to change.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:38:35 PM by CaptainCapsase

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#180827: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:38:18 PM

[up]x4 Again to them "socialism" is a scary word.

They don't like abortions

Despite taking welfare, they want it gone because they think minorities get more of it

For all their whining that they're being stepped on, they sure are silent about the big banks big banking.

The Dems still have working class of color. Why weren't they fooled by Trump's snake oil persona?

Hillary won more voters who viewed the economy as the most important issue.

She also won more voters who knew that the system is rigged towards the rich.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:39:23 PM by NoName999

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#180828: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:38:49 PM

[up][up][up][up]That's going to be kind of hard to do since most if not all of the things that can actually improve the ACA are about as against Republican orthodoxy as you can get, but hopefully something actually does come of this.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:39:07 PM by Mio

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180829: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:43:13 PM

(Rapidly changes subject to break up Echo Chamber.)

So anyone want to talk about how Trump is panicking about "Fake News, Russia, Russia, Russia" on twitter. except for a few tweets about "Love and Strength of the Republican Party"???, every tweet actually written by Trump, has been trying to deflect about Fake Trump/Russia story. Are the Lies are catching up to him?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:44:50 PM by megaeliz

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180830: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:46:40 PM

[up][up][up] So you're gambling everything on Trump being a fluke? I seriously doubt that's the case.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180831: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:47:55 PM

You will not win over the WWC, without throwing minorities under the bus, because the WWC has made it abundantly clear for FORTY YEARS, that they will under no circumstance vote lockstep with people of color, and will gladly set themselves on fire, so long as white supremacy is maintained.

New Survey coming this weekend!
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#180832: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:49:35 PM

[up][up]Better than thinking that moving to the left is somehow gonna win a conservative leaning bloc.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180833: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:50:39 PM

Single Payer got bodied in goddamn Colorado by an 80-20 margin.

And you guys think going left is the solution to all our problems?

[lol][lol]

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180834: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:53:17 PM

[up][up] When we're talking about Sanders, you go on about how its the left's fault that Clinton lost the election (in different and typically less blunt words). That would imply that the best path forwards would be to shift rhetoric to capture those missing democratic voters, which means going left. Strategic use of hypocrisy is an effective method of political debate, if a rather underhanded one.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:57:11 PM by CaptainCapsase

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180835: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:55:14 PM

[up] I'm saying that he can't shut up about it.

.@Fox News from multiple sources: "There was electronic surveillance of Trump, and people close to Trump. This is unprecedented." @FBI

The real story turns out to be SURVEILLANCE and LEAKING! Find the leakers.

Such amazing reporting on unmasking and the crooked scheme against us by @foxandfriends. "Spied on before nomination." The real story. ..not associated with Russia. Trump team spied on before he was nominated." If this is true, does not get much bigger. Would be sad for U.S.

When will Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd and @NBC News start talking about the Obama SURVEILLANCE SCANDAL and stop with the Fake Trump/Russia story? It is the same Fake News Media that said there is "no path to victory for Trump" that is now pushing the phony Russia story. A total scam!

-the Real Donald Trump

Combine this with the way he walked out of the room without signing when he was asked about Trump/Russia, when he was going to sign an excutive order, and it seems obvious he's hiding something.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:58:33 PM by megaeliz

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#180836: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:58:02 PM

I'm not blaming the left. I'm just baffled how some on the left think we can't Rust Belt voters by moving further to the left.

Personally, I think the Democrats should bother energizing their actually loyal demographics into getting their asses to fucking vote

A Republican president gets four years to get stuff done.

A Democrat one only gets two.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180837: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:58:50 PM

That's pretty much standard Trump: if at first you don't succeed move the goalposts until you find something vaguely credible sounding, even if it has very little to do with the initial claim.

[up] Union members were one of the major sources of lost votes for democrats in the rust belt, which would imply that yes, at least some of the working class voters in the rust belt would be open to more ambitious economic platforms, considering organized labor is one of the cornerstones of the political left when it comes to economic policy.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:05:25 PM by CaptainCapsase

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180839: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:00:35 PM

Also anyone want to help me figure out what this means

Anybody (especially Fake News media) who thinks that Repeal & Replace of Obama Care is dead does not know the love and strength in R Party!

Love and strength???

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:01:11 PM by megaeliz

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#180840: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:02:06 PM

"love"

"strength"

Love of lining their own pockets, maybe.

Do not obey in advance.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#180841: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:03:05 PM

[up][up] Considering Trump was viciously attacking the Tea Party recently, that was probably a Staffer tweeting for him. I don't think Trump himself would ever use the words "love" and "strength" unless he was referring to himself.

I will admit, though, that the Inner Party vibes from that are absolutely terrifying.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:04:35 PM by DingoWalley1

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180842: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:06:33 PM

[up]Is the Android vs iPhone test still valid?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#180843: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:08:20 PM

Love and Strength...well more words whose meaning I never actually knew...

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:21:53 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#180844: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:16:13 PM

Trump and whoever else tweets for him just likes to spout out positive sounding slogans. Which has worked for him so far.

At least some of his tweets are bound to just be bloviating due to just how many he makes. This doesn't seem like one we should give much care over.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:22:21 PM by AceofSpades

henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#180845: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:18:10 PM

Re. "winning the wwc by moving left":
What I mean is more "New Deal" style economic populism. That's how the Democrats used to win working class votes.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180846: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:26:21 PM

You do realize the only ONLY reason the New Deal passed was because FDR screwed over minorities when it passed, right?

Otherwise, there's no way Southern Democrats would've touched his programs with a ten foot pole, even in spite of the Depression.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#180847: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:26:38 PM

And then a little thing called the Civil Rights Movement happened and for some reason the WWC was no longer enamored of those policies...

Semi-[nja]

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:27:11 PM by Hodor2

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#180848: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:31:04 PM

But the New Deal was a compromise, and the end result was it was welfare for whites only. Which is not to say that the New Deal wasn't a huge step. [nja]

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:35:29 PM by JBC31187

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180849: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:50:25 PM

So what I'm to understand is that race relations in the United States are exactly the same as they were in the 1930s? Bullshit. Despite Trump, things are vastly better now then they were back then, both in terms of the attitudes of the population and in terms of the conditions of minority populations. The fact that lynchings are no longer a commonplace occurrence is one manifestation of how things have changed.

The civil rights movement leading to the collapse of social democracy in America also wasn't a forgone conclusion.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:53:18 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#180850: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:00:17 PM

I don't think that anyone is claiming that. More that white voters didn't start leaving the Democrats because they stopped caring about populism. Rather, they started leaving the Democrats when the party became pro-Civil Rights. And there's definitely a pattern of white voters disapproving of policies when those policies benefit minorities, especially if they are sold on the idea that those policies only benefit minorities, even if they use them themselves.

And while race relations are legitimately a lot better, you still see versions of the same things today. So instead of poll taxes and literacy tests there's racial gerrymandering and voter ID laws. Not to mention all of the police shootings of unarmed people from minority groups (which granted, are probably more covered rather than more prevalent). Speaking of which, "coincidentally", when Obama made statements addressing those and other inequitable actions by police, his support among white voters dropped and never recovered.

So, I guess as an overall thought, what's more than a little saddening and aggravating is the fact that a lot of why Sanders can promote social welfare policies with more success than Obama is because he's white and so white voters will trust him that those policies will help them. Whereas they never really trusted Obama.

Edit- In fact I think a lot of the reason why Democrats have been gradualists is because of all of the hostility of white voters toward social welfare programs, because those programs were identified as helping minorities.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:09:07 PM by Hodor2


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