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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#180726: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:38:43 PM

[up][up] That's because Saint Bernie has the same problem the Republicans have. Only the Republicans think the golden age was the 1950's (and in the case of the South, the 1850's) while he thinks it was the 1930's.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:39:07 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180727: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:40:10 PM

[up][up]And how do you plan on getting people to vote for you? Or do you plan to win just enough for people to start throwing knives at your campaign poster for splitting the votes?

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:40:41 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180728: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:43:29 PM

Barney Frank warned us. I mean he straight up was a prophet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn0ncUK5VI0&t=156s

New Survey coming this weekend!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#180729: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:44:54 PM

Sanders is America's most highly regarded politician atm.

Easy to do when your entire track record consists of bloviating about how much better things would be if people only listened to you, while getting nothing done.

And if you want to believe Tom Perez, the head of the DNC, which I don't, he's running things by Bernie to get his approval.

I sincerely hope he's not. Running things by a guy who has never accomplished anything legislatively would be moronic.

Gonna point out the hypocrisy right here.

Is Clinton still talking about what a dick Sanders is? Oh right, she never talked about what a dick Sanders is. When she starts bashing him or Independents you will have a point about hypocrisy.

He joins it when he ran, he's changing atm and he's rejoining it after his term as an independent senator is dome.
I've told you this before. He switched back to Independent because that what Vermont voted for him as. He's planning to rejoin the Democratic Party after his term.

Until he actually does that, he can shut the Hell up. And frankly I will believe it when I see it.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#180730: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:45:53 PM

Addressing the anxieties of racists could be done in ways that benefit everyone, inevitably including racists, but also the people hated by racists, whether the racists like it or not. And they may not have a choice, and even may not care, once they realize they're not being left out, knocking a major plank out from under them and pushing back against "white genocide" and other such nonsense.

Take this focus group from Macomb County, Michigan, who didn't have college degrees, had voted for Obama at least once, and identified as "independents, Democratic-leaning independents, or Democrats."

One woman explained, "I went and finally signed up for Medicaid, and I'm standing in the damn welfare office, and I'm looking around at all of these people that can't even say hello to me in English. But they're all there with appointments for their workers, which means they have the healthcare, they have the food stamps... If you can come from somewhere else, why can't we all get it?"

There was a chorus of hostility from Trump supporters toward immigrants who don't assimilate, specifically by not speaking English. A number of them complained about being denied food stamps when they were in need, while also rejecting the notion that they benefited from white privilege.

"It was funny, the backlash that we got over [allowing cash withdrawals on] EBT cards," said a Trump supporter named William. "Here I'm struggling to get my kid hotdogs and you're buying a porterhouse, and I'm being told that I'm wrong or I'm racist or I'm not the—I'm privileged, and that's what's wrong."

"It's almost like you wonder how are they working the system that you're not," Chris, another study participant, responded. A third, Matt, responded by suggesting perhaps "we're checking the wrong box when we're filling out paperwork," meaning they'd be provided with social services they desperately need if they weren't white.

Now, I don't have to tell you how racist this all is. And any attempt to expand these programs would be met with resistance over the "right" and "wrong" kinds of people receiving benefit. But the support for the programs is there, and taking things in a universal direction would be a major step in breaking down these kinds of people's dividing lines.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:48:25 PM by Eschaton

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180731: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:46:51 PM

[up][up][up][up] If necessary yes. That's what playing hardball means: holding the country (and if possible the whole world) hostage to your demands. I'd rather not go there, but I'm not in the business of leaving options off the table.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:48:23 PM by CaptainCapsase

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#180732: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:47:55 PM

[up] [up]The thing is, large welfare states are in no way an antidote or anti-racist vaccine.

My evidence: Great Britain, Denmark (pls don't nuke us), Sweden, France.

You'll just start having people fighting over who qualifies for welfare and who doesn't, and empower the right to start selectively picking and choosing who's 'worthy' of receiving welfare and who isn't and playing that racist fiddle instead.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:48:53 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180733: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:49:28 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Easy to do when your entire track record consists of bloviating about how much better things would be if people only listened to you, while getting nothing done.

Well, that and voting in ways that keep gun rights constituents (at first) and Lockheed Martin happy.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:49:37 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180734: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:49:30 PM

[up][up] They aren't, but neither do they inherently promote racism. Nor is a platform of economic justice mutually exclusive with a platform of social justice.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:50:17 PM by CaptainCapsase

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#180735: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:52:01 PM

Nor is a platform of economic justice mutually exclusive with a platform of social justice.

True. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Bloviating about how the Dems have lost the WWC vote by not focusing on economic justice and fucking around with 'identity politics' sure as fucking sure is.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:52:49 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180736: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:52:32 PM

And who gives a damn about Sanders Popularity?

In 2013, Hillary Clinton was the most popular political figure in the country by a gigantic margin.

Look how that turned out after the propaganda machine raked up?

New Survey coming this weekend!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#180737: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:53:20 PM

That's because Saint Bernie has the same problem the Republicans have. Only the Republicans think the golden age was the 1950's (and in the case of the South, the 1850's) while he thinks it was the 1930's.

Well neither of these are true.

Bernie's trying to cloak himself in FDR's mantle but that's just a disguise. Overall, he's a socialist trying to stop the rightward pendulum swing and swing the country left which is proving somewhat successful.

Republicans are trying to create a corporate dystopia. It's only the base that wants 50's America back.

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#180738: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:54:29 PM

Yeah, I can tell you . . . race isn't the main factor in how fucked up the welfare system is. I'm a cashier. I've seen the kinds of things white people get on welfare too. A lot of it is junk food. Probably because they work and can't find the time to cook.

The whole system needs a revamp but we can't do it all at once, and certainly not until we thoroughly purge the GOP taint from our government.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180739: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:57:04 PM

@math792: I don't believe that's what Sanders said, just to begin with. He said the democrats lost the working class through a failure to articulate a platform of economic justice, there was nothing about race in there.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:59:48 PM by CaptainCapsase

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#180740: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:00:31 PM

[up] That's what I'm getting from him, and honestly it's the same kind of creeping bullshit that's started infesting the Soc Dems here - just promise solutions with no reasonable expectation of ever fulfilling them, blow a few dogwhistles about the working-class, run a foreign policy that's undiscernable from the one the nationalists are running and pretend it's all about respecting the wishes of the people.

The fucker even tried to lay Brexit at the feet of the 'economic justice' argument. That can fuck right off.

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:01:57 PM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180741: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:02:29 PM

[up] I kinda knew you'd say it was a dogwhistle, and there's a bit of an unbridgeable impasse here, I suspect.

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:05:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#180742: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:04:51 PM

I mean, I fully concede that there might be a linguistic difference there (part of the perceived difference between various political situations in very different countries are driven by different cultures and, by extension, different dogwhistle language), but that's how it came across to me, being from a country where that shit is routine at this point.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#180743: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:04:54 PM

The claim that Clinton is a "warmonger" started on the right and was picked up by the Internet left...
Hillary Clinton voted for invading Afghanistan and Iraq while in the Senate, supported military intervention in Libya while serving as Secretary of State, and promised to escalate US involvement in the Syrian Civil War during her campaign for president.

Criticizing Clinton for starting wars mainly comes from the left—the right doesn't criticize her for any of this stuff because they support it too.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#180744: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:06:57 PM

[up] Except, as was discussed, Trump absolutely tried to use it against her in the election, to the point of lying about his own support of the Iraq War.

Oh God! Natural light!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180745: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:07:21 PM

[up][up][up] I certainly don't think "working class" is a clear dog whistle; both parties have used it extensively because it's a shorthand and polite way of referring to the lower and lower-middle class, which is by far the biggest single economic block in the country.

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:11:04 PM by CaptainCapsase

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#180746: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:08:07 PM

And who gives a damn about Sanders Popularity?

The leaders of the Democratic Party do (that is if you believe Tom Perez).

Sanders knows how to enthuse voters, he knows how to talk to Trump supporters to get them on his side and he's seen as an honest politician.

Hell, my dad is a staunch Republican that thinks Obama is a Kenyan and a Muslim but even he thinks Bernie is a good, honest guy.

If the Democratic Party was smart they'd piggyback off of his popularity which they seem to be doing.

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:08:32 PM by MadSkillz

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#180747: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:10:22 PM

[up][up]Except the folks trying to use it as a talking point almost always actually mean "The white working class".

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#180748: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:11:14 PM

@henry

Except, as was already explained to you by Tobias, Trump did try to use that against her. Because the right has no shame and the Internet left will lap their BS up if it attacks "the Establishment".

He went after her about it again and again too. So you either had your eyes and ears closed the whole election or you consider Trump a member of "the left".

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:13:09 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#180749: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:11:31 PM

Madskillz:And what happens when Sanders is wrong? Should the Democrats just go with him anyway to avoid pissing off the Saint Bernie supporters?

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:12:22 PM by Kostya

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180750: Apr 3rd 2017 at 3:12:32 PM

[up][up][up] Do they though, or are you just using the tried and true (and admittedly very effective) debating tactic of throwing out accusations of prejudice to short circuit a debate? It's an incredibly common turn of phrase in both parties in my own experience (and in fact it's a term which has an actual meaning rather than someone that was invented as a dog whistle like "strapping young bucks on welfare"), and it's generally intended to be vague enough that voters can project themselves into the term.

edited 3rd Apr '17 3:19:09 PM by CaptainCapsase


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