TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#180701: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:17:18 PM

@Tactical Fox

There isn't a reason you should like him. Since the election he's been trying to claim that he told us so, while pretending to a relevance he does not have. In doing so he continues to keep the wounds in the Democratic Party open, while "inspiring" a new generation of Unicorn Brigaders to keep on hoping that if they just pick the right messiah they'll get everything they ever wanted without trying. He's demanding a party that he's never had the guts to actually join, change in order to meet his personal beliefs about what they should be.

Which really, is just the Unicorn Brigade mentality personified. "You have to earn my vote". No. You have to demonstrate that there's a reason to listen to you, and the only way you can do that is by voting. Sanders' insistence on remaining an Independent should realistically cut him off from having any say in how things work in the Democratic Party.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#180702: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:17:59 PM

Again with this argument. Is there any glue left in the chalk outline of the former horse?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180703: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:18:06 PM

@Ambar: That's how Russia's modern propaganda strategy works; fund both left wing and right wing groups that are divisive and ideally militant, favoring the groups that are out of power. Now that the GOP is in power, they're likely switching gears towards favoring the democrats. I recall you posting an article about it in relation to Steve Bannon aping it a while ago.

My point is not that they are specifically funding groups like BLM, just that it wouldn't surprise me if they are providing a small amount of money under the table to try and encourage radicalization; they're obviously not the primary financiers, but neither were they the primary financier of Trump's campaign or the alt-right in general.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:23:12 PM by CaptainCapsase

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#180704: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:18:26 PM

[up]x4 I must agree with this. If we're going to call for sources on the "Clinton is corrupt" stuff, then I'd like the same for "the Justice Democrats are being funded by the Russians". Otherwise, I see no reason to claim that the latter is any less bullshit than the form.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:18:51 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#180705: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:18:50 PM

To us he looks awkward. To him, he looks the way everyone should look. It's what you get when you've lived your entire life in an echo chamber. This is why while I have no issues with participation trophies and the like, we still need the assholes out there who bitch about how they water down competition. It keeps the Special Snowflake Syndrome from devolving completely into what Trump lives on a daily basis. Yes, everyone is a combination of factors that doesn't match every single other person on the planet (can't call it unique. Almost everyone has doubles, period. You just rarely meet them because there are over 7 billion other people to hide them.) but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be altering and fixing up the bad parts of that combination. Which is something Trump never had to do because he rarely met people with any sort of power over him that actually wanted to help him improve.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#180706: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:19:48 PM

Remind me again why I shouldn't dislike this asshole, when he goes out of his way to uplift the WWC as this somehow mythological demographic?

Because from you quoted, he said the working class and your mind jumped to only the white working class.

You know most minorities are part of the working class, right?

And he's not wrong except he was way too high of a view of Trump voters who he seems to see as misguided which I'm sure most are but there's definitely a heavily racist core to that party.

But I also think he's trying to appeal to Trump voters to switch to his side so he's trying to be nice to them.

Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#180707: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:21:51 PM

I just don't see the point.

Every time the Democrats put up a "Centrist" candidate who was charismatic, they win.

Every time they put up a far-left/policy wonk, they lose.

This isn't exactly rocket science of why the party is sketchy about going hard progressive.

Maybe they'll need a charismatic progressive to win. Who knows.

But I can understand why the moderate Democrats would be internally telling the progressive wing to piss off.

They haven't proven they can win.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180708: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:22:33 PM

[up][up]Except that every hot take fawning over his latest sayings deliberately minimises the existence of working class people who aren't white.

Economic anxiety is apparently a whites only thing. And heaven forfend any concerns that you might be on the wrong end of a pogrom...

[up]Oh, they can win, it's just that the wins tend to be in focus group like environments. The question of how the ideas these progressives claim to be for are to be sold to the public at large has never been answered here.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:24:18 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#180709: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:23:02 PM

How could Bernie overlook how a not-insignificant number of Trump supporters that are frothing racists and say that they aren't? I'm disappointed in him. sad

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:27:28 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#180710: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:23:02 PM

@AmbarSonofDeshar
The attacks on Clinton from the left were completely different from the attacks coming from the right. For example, I doubt many right-wingers were complaining about Clinton's support for Bill's welfare reform or the war in Iraq.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180711: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:24:02 PM

[up][up] This is a democracy. Unless you intend to change that, those people still have votes, and will probably use them; there's no sense in burning bridges towards a voting bloc under any circumstances with rhetoric, even if you intend to do just that in the process of governing.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:27:14 PM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180712: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:26:41 PM

[up][up] There was no reason to wonder why the right didn't like HRC. But the propaganda campaign against her from the right was intentionally designed to provoke anger from left-wing voters as well. Steve Bannon is a master operator, and many of us done got took. And let's not talk about Stein and her Russia boner.

[up] It's funny how many people in the Sanders wing keep talking about how we need to accommodate the anxieties of a bunch of racists. Sure, they get votes. But that doesn't mean that Democrats should attempt to win elections with them.

Trump didn't win because he got more votes. Clinton lost because she got fewer votes, and an awful lot of those were from the unicorn brigade.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:29:25 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180713: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:27:26 PM

[up][up][up]Funny, I recall someone getting a free pass for voting for a crime bill back in '94 by means of having a penis.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:27:49 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180714: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:27:30 PM

Burning bridges? These people burnt the bridge the minute the Civil Rights Act was passed and never looked back.

Race and people's voting patterns are so intricately linked, it'd be like trying to remove Hydrogen from a H 2 O Molecule and still expecting to drink water.

New Survey coming this weekend!
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#180715: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:28:38 PM

[up]x5 Then (luckily for you) you haven't been on reddit long enough.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180716: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:28:46 PM

The ideal way to deal with racism isn't to fucking accommodate it. That's the Southern Strategy all over again. Do we really want the Dixiecrats back?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#180717: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:30:36 PM

To be fair, they ARE Americans too. They have a vote. Not defending their ideals, but probably the only thing keeping them from going full-on death cult, grabbing guns, and hailing Christ the Destroyer is the fact that whenever a President runs out of terms, the other party gets one in. Give it a few decades of these people not getting their votes counted, they probably would go terrorist.

"My daddy says when he was a kid, we had one of OUR kind in office. I dun never seen it, but it's about time we had one. If they won't give us one, we'll just MAKE it happen. Darlene, where's my fuckin' gun?"

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#180718: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:31:18 PM

The attacks on Clinton from the left were completely different from the attacks coming from the right. For example, I doubt many right-wingers were complaining about Clinton's support for Bill's welfare reform or the war in Iraq.

They actually were complaining about the war in Iraq. All the way up to Trump himself, they were. That was one of Trump's attack angles: in 2002 as a senator, Hillary voted in favor of the war. Trump liked to bring that up so he could counter it by saying that he, Donald Trump, always knew that Iraq was a mistake.

It was a lie easily disproven by video of him endorsing the war in 2002, but that's how his campaign rolled: make shit up, revise history, and get away with it because Republican voters don't fact-check.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#180719: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:33:03 PM

The attacks on Clinton from the left were completely different from the attacks coming from the right. For example, I doubt many right-wingers were complaining about Clinton's support for Bill's welfare reform or the war in Iraq.

Please. The hard-right and lunatic left through around a litany of near identical BS about Clinton. The corruption meme started on the right and was picked up on by the Internet left. The "she'll go to war with Russia" nonsense started on the right and was picked up on by the Internet left—including some people who have posted in this thread. The notion that Russia is a friend who wouldn't interfere with this election started on the right, and has been picked up by the Internet left, who are now trying to dismiss Putin's meddling as, in your own words, a "conspiracy theory".

The claim that Clinton is a "warmonger" started on the right and was picked up by the Internet left (and quoted at us repeatedly here, I might note). The right dug up all their greatest hits (Whitewater, Vince Foster, "she was mean to Monica") and put them back up on the 'net; soon enough, the Internet left was using those claims to fuel the corruption narrative. All that horseshit about her "personally funding child soldiers" started on the right and was picked up on the by Internet left (who don't seem to care about one of their own supporting Assad, but that's another story).

The overarching narrative of Clinton the dishonest, corrupt warhawk was an invention of the hard-right in the 90s. And as soon as she was up against the Progressive Messiah (TM) the Internet left started regurgitating that narrative and twisting every fact—and every "alternative fact"—they had until it fit that narrative.

Funny, I recall someone getting a free pass for voting for a crime bill back in '94 by means of having a penis.

This. Christ almighty, this. The anger of the True Progressives (TM) is so very, very selective as to be outright baffling. They'll make up any story they can about Clinton, but when Sanders or Stein or Gabbard or whoever does all the things they accuse her of doing it's somehow worthy of ignorance. I don't know if it's sexism or, given their willingness to throw in with Stein and Gabbard, just another iteration of messianic politics—when the Progressive Messiah and his Disciples do it, it's acceptable, when others do, it is not.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:36:09 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#180720: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:34:16 PM

[up][up][up][up] No, but considering that most of the people who are racist in this country are old Baby Boomers who are too set in their ways to change, and currently are the largest Generation in the USA (with the Milennials a close No. 2), educating them on why they're wrong isn't going to happen. You could potentially change someone like Milo Yiannoppolis through Education, but Granny doesn't need to be taught anything by snot nosed snow flakes when she's lived a wonderful life and her racism didn't hurt her at all.

The sad truth is, until the Baby Boomer Generation dies off to a considerable degree, there's only 3 ways to deal with them: Appeal to their Economic Needs, Appeal to their Racism, or both. Bernie Sanders and Barack Obama follow part A, and Trump did Part C. And criticizing them, at least right now, will only lead to losing Elections in key States that are still overwhelmingly Baby Boomer territory, which is why Hillary barely lost.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:40:19 PM by DingoWalley1

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#180721: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:34:22 PM

Since the election he's been trying to claim that he told us so, while pretending to a relevance he does not have.

Sanders is America's most highly regarded politician atm.

And if you want to believe Tom Perez, the head of the DNC, which I don't, he's running things by Bernie to get his approval.

In doing so he continues to keep the wounds in the Democratic Party open

Gonna point out the hypocrisy right here.

He's demanding a party that he's never had the guts to actually join, change in order to meet his personal beliefs about what they should be.

He joins it when he ran, he's changing atm and he's rejoining it after his term as an independent senator is dome.

Which really, is just the Unicorn Brigade mentality personified. "You have to earn my vote". No. You have to demonstrate that there's a reason to listen to you, and the only way you can do that is by voting. [[/quoteblck]]

-sighs-

This isn't a unicorn bridage thing. You have to enthuse people to vote. Demographics are on our side and yet we're still losing so obviously the Democratic Party has been doing something wrong this past decade.

[[quoteblck]]Sanders' insistence on remaining an Independent should realistically cut him off from having any say in how things work in the Democratic Party.

I've told you this before. He switched back to Independent because that what Vermont voted for him as. He's planning to rejoin the Democratic Party after his term.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180722: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:34:27 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Which is precisely my point; they have votes, and if through minor and inconsequential modifications of your rhetoric you can achieve a net gain in votes, it's foolish not to do so, especially when it's trivial to simply go back on your word once in office.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:35:02 PM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180723: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:34:41 PM

[up][up][up][up] And the reverse happened too. Trump was happy to have Sanders drag out the primaries since it meant more material he could use against Clinton in the general election.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:35:16 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180724: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:34:51 PM

And I also find it hilarious that Bernie is willing to compromise and court working class whites and outright said that it's okay for some Democrats to NOT be Pro-Choice in order to win, but when Hillary tried to appeal to the very few decent Republican voters left, his wing crucified her for seemingly going to the "right" to court them (which was completely false.)

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180725: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:36:14 PM

[up][up] Continuing to play this particular blame game will eventually lead to the left deciding there's no other option but to play hardball (which is what groups like the justice democrats are intent on doing). That's something I think we'd all rather avoid, though I'm prepared to go down that road if the party refuses to meaningfully change.

[up] You know what though? Hypocrisy pays in politics.

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:40:25 PM by CaptainCapsase


Total posts: 417,856
Top