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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#180651: Apr 3rd 2017 at 9:04:15 AM

[up][up][up]Be careful with qualifiers like naturally. What may seem 'obvious' to an educated person is the flipside of the folk wisdom that has put us in this mess. Assuming the rest of the world perceives itself through an educated, self critical lense is a huge part of why the Democrats have had such a huge problem appealing to people who might agree with them in principle, but are turned off by pundits unable to articulate their goals and methods.

And Hollywood is a mix like most other groupings; Tim Allen might be the loudest of the tone deaf right wingers, but he is far from alone.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#180652: Apr 3rd 2017 at 9:04:56 AM

[up][up][up] That would be by design rather than by incompetence, I suspect. Military adventurism is a tried and true method of mitigating weak domestic legitimacy, and North Korea's nuclear program is probably the easiest Casus Belli for dragging the United States into another war. So long as things appear to be going well on election day, Trump would more or less clinch his reelection bid by going down that route.

[up][up] Until tangible consequences start hitting them, I don't expect that to change.

edited 3rd Apr '17 9:08:32 AM by CaptainCapsase

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#180653: Apr 3rd 2017 at 9:31:24 AM

[up][up][up] Were they normal before he came though? Or they were secretly insane all along?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180654: Apr 3rd 2017 at 9:41:06 AM

Conservatives and republicans will literally set themselves on fire, if it means liberals and minorities get burned just SLIGHTLY worse.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#180655: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:20:22 AM

[up] Death Seeker incarnates then? Shame, maybe the whole pressure of the current events made so suicidal?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#180656: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:41:52 AM

No, not Death Seekers. Just people so drunk on Toxic Masculinity that winning has become more important than succeeding.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#180657: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:44:07 AM

[up] Yeah. But the question remains, were they sane before Trump or were they secretly insane all the time?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#180658: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:45:03 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/politics/articles/2017-04-03/democrats-have-votes-to-halt-gorsuch-confirmation-tally-shows

I'm hearing Democrats officially have the 41 votes needs to block Gorusch, so at least one nuclear option may be imminent.

A question, though, is it even remotely possible that Senate Democrats are actively trying to provoke the GOP into burning up the Nuclear Option? If so, what could the motivation be? To keep it from hanging over their heads? To force Republican ownership of anything the filibuster could have otherwise stopped?

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#180659: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:49:42 AM

[up] Hopefully the less violent option...

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#180660: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:50:16 AM

[up][up][up] The GOP's been like this for decades. Trump's just a symptom of a steadily-worsening problem.

edited 3rd Apr '17 10:50:27 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180661: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:51:01 AM

Grouch isn't getting on the supreme court unless they nuke the filibuster. And multiple Senators have gone on record saying that they will oppose nuking it.

Once they nuke the filibuster, that means when Democrats take back Congress/White House, the GOP will be pretty much be completely powerless (even more so than Democrats right now).

Each of these Senators know that killing the Filibuster not only limits the minority party's power, but also their individual powers as a Senator.

This is NOT a sword they want to die on, but in case they do, Democrats will win, in the long term anyhow.

GOP is is a lose-lose situation.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#180662: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:53:08 AM

The other thing is that McConnell really doesn't want to be the fall guy for anything. If he nukes the filibuster, he's going to have to reconcile that with his constant use of it under Obama, and I don't think he'll have a good answer for it. He still hasn't given a good answer for the Garland thing.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#180663: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:58:45 AM

Though if they do go nuclear, we better hope that Gingrich, Bayer, and even Kennedy don't kick it or retire within the next 2-4 years.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#180665: Apr 3rd 2017 at 10:59:32 AM

This is pretty much what we discussed last week-the GOP wants to dangle the filibuster and 'cooperation' over the heads of the Democrats to try and string them along until a solution presents itself that lets them bypass the senate or shift blame to the Democrats; who, in turn, are having none of it and are putting the GOP front and center on the chocking block. 'Own it' and 'put up or shut up' is what we called it, I think.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#180666: Apr 3rd 2017 at 11:02:14 AM

Seeing McConnell fall apart under scrutiny makes my heart smile, because of all the terrible Republicans in Washington, he's the worst. I want him gone so badly, you guys.

edited 3rd Apr '17 11:02:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#180667: Apr 3rd 2017 at 11:04:00 AM

McConnell's standards are entirely what will get him re-elected. He has no other values. I can tell that's the case because he completely reversed his position on basically everything after Reagan got elected.

Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#180668: Apr 3rd 2017 at 12:45:39 PM

Dont overthink this - the filibuster is worse than useless if only one side - the one with an R ever gets to use it. So the D's are deploying it because he's a fucking awful choice, end of. Any considerations along the lines of what it might prompt the republicans to do is a waste of cognitive effort - either they blow it up, or they do not, if they're inclined to do so, well, letting them have whatever they want in a futile effort to "preserve" it is very stupid indeed, and if it's a bluff it should be called.

Re: The overton window. Eh. It doesn't get moved by reasonable centrist people. If you feel it's too far to the right, attacking your own left - which this thread does a lot of! - is not a solid strategy.

Here is a solid strategy: Sit down, with the best minds you can find, and write up an amendment to kill citizens united. Spending limits on the canadian model or something equivalent. Then push it on ballot initiatives and in front of state legislatures. Because this is a thing massive majorities of the voters want, which is very hard to argue against, and which individual politicians will be very tempted by on a personal level because fundraising is hell.

edited 3rd Apr '17 12:52:15 PM by Izeinsummer

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180669: Apr 3rd 2017 at 12:48:42 PM

There are some Republicans who realize that they cannot count on holding both the White House and Senate permanently, and therefore that killing the filibuster for confirmations will come back to bite them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#180670: Apr 3rd 2017 at 12:58:03 PM

Why does nobody on these shows ever fucking point out Clinton got three million more votes, making McConnell's statement even more wrong?

edited 3rd Apr '17 12:58:15 PM by Lightysnake

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#180671: Apr 3rd 2017 at 1:03:23 PM

Because it's only real importance is symbolic? Not wanting to start another argument on the electoral college, but while Clinton may have gotten the total popular vote, but the electoral win means Trump got the popular votes on a state by state basis.

Incidentally:

Steve Bannon is keeping a particular eye on the Georgia special election.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/327018-bannon-closely-watching-ga-special-election-report

Orrin Hatch also got grilled about Merrick Garland on CNN.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/thats-total-bs-sen-orrin-hatch-loses-it-on-cnn-after-hes-accused-of-supreme-court-double-standard/

edited 3rd Apr '17 1:08:29 PM by sgamer82

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#180672: Apr 3rd 2017 at 1:16:31 PM

Yeah. But the question remains, were they sane before Trump or were they secretly insane all the time?
They've been openly insane at least since Ronald Reagan or Newt Gingrich held federal office.

edited 3rd Apr '17 1:16:52 PM by Balmung

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#180673: Apr 3rd 2017 at 1:26:06 PM

[up]Willfully blind since Reagan, enthusiastically hyper-partisan since Gingrich, vocally bigoted since Obama, and simply psychotic in the wake of Romney's loss.

edited 3rd Apr '17 1:26:22 PM by ViperMagnum357

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180674: Apr 3rd 2017 at 1:29:55 PM

Granted I don't think Romney would have been a horrible choice for president. The ACA is actually modeled off his plan when he was governor of Mass, and seems pretty reasonable.

edited 3rd Apr '17 1:33:16 PM by megaeliz

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#180675: Apr 3rd 2017 at 1:32:56 PM

[up]That is not so much a knock on Romney-I disagree with him on almost every issue, but I think he could have at least aspired to be an aggressively mediocre President. His loss made it clear the GOP had to shift-unfortunately, the direction it shifted was the opposite of where the party needed to go.

edited 3rd Apr '17 1:33:16 PM by ViperMagnum357


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