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AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#180626: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:17:48 AM

Remember, Hillary was the Warhawk and the democrats would drag the US into unnecessary wars.

Trump stupidity might even cause North Korea to shoot first if they feel pressured enough to believe they will be attacked regardless.

But then this is the moron who criticized Obama for giving away details on public meetings and now is openly declaring his intention to attack North Korea over the Nuclear Program on an unilateral move.

Way to go Cheeto Benito, making everyone in Asia nervous because of your stupidity.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180627: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:26:30 AM

It must be noted that North Korea has maintained its militarization for decades on the threat of "imminent US attack". To give them an actual justification for that threat... would be bad. They still have massive amounts of artillery aimed at South Korea, and even the slightest hint of an attack might be enough to get Seoul bombarded in a preemptive strike.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180628: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:27:24 AM

Actually, the best thing for progressives to do at this point would be to try to take over the Democratic Party, much like the Tea Party did with the Republicans. Otherwise run as independents. I see no advantage right now to a third party.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180629: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:31:06 AM

The Democratic Party needs to position itself as a governing party, not a party of insurgent ideology. That's the only way it'll recapture the center that is so desperately needed. One of the things that was so destructive to Hillary Clinton's run was the assault on her from the "progressive" left, in an argument drawn so precisely from the Perfect Solution Fallacy that it might as well have been formed there.

The last thing we need is two disruptive, insurgent parties fighting to claim the title of "Most Ideologically Pure".

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180630: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:31:48 AM

I was more thinking down the line. I agree that we need to support the Democrats right now.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#180631: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:01:47 AM

That's part of why I'm hoping the Dems really double down on town halls. Besides GOP-shaming, they have the really practical benefit of exposing people to their government.
One cannot make up for zero civics education in an afternoon, but I'm sure it'll help reps to explain what they're trying to accomplish and why they need steady support, and, importantly that they cannot snap their fingers and make free healthcare and the end of racism fall from the heavens if only they were true believers.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180632: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:11:50 AM

More insurgency is literally what this country needs more than any other thing. You cannot govern unless your theory of governance is based on the truth. The "Center" in American politics is literally a compromise with a bunch of lies.

I also wanted to sharee the following clip. John Oliver is well worth watching anyway, but his take on the Nunes fiasco is hilarious. The really amazing stuff is at the very end of the clip:

"... Oliver saved his harshest critique for the defense that Nunes’ fellow House Republican Ted Yoho delivered on MSNBC, in which he tried to claim that Congress members work for the president and not their constituents.

“No! You absolutely do not! You do one of them, and explicitly not the other. That is literally the point of Congress,” Oliver exclaimed. “And that's why this story is Stupid Watergate: It could very well take down the government, but nobody involved understands why, or how to cover it up, or what the government fucking is, or possibly how to breathe without getting regular reminders.” "

"Stupid Watergate" indeed.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:12:07 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180633: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:19:37 AM

When the left starts giving actual workable real world policy solutions then I'll support them slowly taking over the Democratic Party. Until then, they can have a seat at the table and negotiate like the rest of us in the party.

New Survey coming this weekend!
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180634: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:44:27 AM

We provided workable solutions generations ago. Stimulus spending (Keynesian economics in general) is the big starter. Higher minimum wage, paid maternity leave, Medicaid/Medicare expansion, microenterprise programs, the list goes on and on...

All paid by higher taxes on corporations and high wage earners.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180635: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:48:18 AM

And those are not extreme solutions, either. They are "centrist", mainstream programs that can be found around the world. That is not what we are talking about. Most Democrats stand for them: Obama and Clinton stood for them, as did Sanders. The problem is not that the Democrats are insufficiently committed to social democracy. The problem is that a huge portion of our nation has been captured by an extremist, insurgent ideology.

Turning the only sane party that remains into another extremist, insurgent group is a terrible, terrible idea.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:13:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180636: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:49:46 AM

[up][up] That is why I like the people at indivisible guide so much. A lot of the stuff they are saying, is basic civics and participatory democracy, that most people have never been exposed too.

edited 3rd Apr '17 7:55:19 AM by megaeliz

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#180637: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:00:42 AM

For any interested, LA Times just ran an excellent article demolishing the Cheeto, and is part one of four [1]; stay away from the comments though-usual mix of garbage.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180639: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:13:46 AM

Yeah, I said Progressive, as in "will lead toward further social progress", not extreme, which would be a silly thing to value in and of itself.

For an even better list, see The Wanderer's posting here.

"...Lets see: we could talk about instituting a "maximum wage" where the executives of a company make no more than, say, 20x more than the lowest paid worker within that company, universal daycare for the children of working parents, universal maternity/paternity leave, (shit, there are countries with leave each month for women with heavy periods, and we can't accept that mother should get paid time off after giving birth!) government takeover of industries/research that society feels should be dedicated solely to the public good rather than profit, (medical research & drug making, for example) massively expand the scope of the FDA so that all the unregulated supplements making bogus health claims will have a much harder time getting into the market..."

There's lots more. I encourage you to go back and read it. The point, however, is the the current "centrist" Democratic party has fought for almost none of these things.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:14:50 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180640: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:15:20 AM

I agree with all of those things, but they won't happen overnight, and they especially won't happen if we keep letting the perfect be the enemy of the good by tearing down Democrats who don't do exactly what we want, such that Republicans win control of government.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:16:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#180641: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:21:03 AM

[up]x4 I'm sure our Fearless Leader will call it the "failing L.A. Times" in response.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#180642: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:24:35 AM

" The problem is that a huge portion of our nation has been captured by an extremist, insurgent ideology"

funny thing I just saw "divide nation of america" a documental that record rise of polarization during obama period and you can see how republican move from a "respectfull if somewhat old fashion and racist" to "FUCK YOU EVERYONE, (white)AMERICAFIRST, MAGA!" and what is clear case of prjection, they blame obama for being a race bater and dividing people and then chose Trump who carrier is base don shitting on other people....I mean just wow...

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180643: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:30:30 AM

Which is exactly what I want, an incremental take-over of the Democratic Party's policy platform. It doesn't have to happen overnight, but obviously the Trump Administration has presented us with an unparalleled opportunity for some significant gains (well, not entirely unparalleled, the Indivisible Movement is based on the Tea Party, and explicitly borrows their tactics). There's no sense in dragging feet.

The Republican Opinion Manipulation Machine moved the Overton Window to the right two generations ago. It's time to start moving it back left.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180644: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:33:52 AM

Personally we should put a bigger focus on civics and how to be an active participant in democracy.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180645: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:35:01 AM

[up][up]Republicans achieved that in part by getting the mainstream media to declare them the party of "sensible, fiscally responsible government", even when that was patently false. I don't see any way to drag the Overton Window back without the Democrats taking over that position, and we cannot hope to get it if we make a big point of pushing the most dramatic elements of our agenda.

I don't know if I've made it clear enough, but wishing for la revolución to come and tear down The Man is just a terrible, terrible idea. All you'll do is run headlong into entrenched opposition.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:37:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#180646: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:35:12 AM

That requires education reform. And that involves taking back the state level offices.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#180647: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:37:58 AM

I fell like part of the problem of why younger people are less likely to vote, is that they were never taught what they can do as citizens to actual have a say in their government.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:39:41 AM by megaeliz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#180648: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:49:37 AM

I don't understand why you are strawmanning me in this way, Fighteer- no where have I called for any such thing. Indivisible resembles the Tea Party tactically, but where we differ is, of course, that our policy recommendations are based on the truth. In the US at this time, I am sad to say, that's revolutionary. And we totally can capture the media- we just have become "cool". Hollywood is naturally leftist anyway, it's only a matter of time before some attractive celebrities join the movement.

edited 3rd Apr '17 8:50:36 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180649: Apr 3rd 2017 at 8:58:09 AM

Is Trump poking North Korea with a stick again? I really, really wish he'd stop that. The majority of my family lives in South Korea, and if they were to get bombed off the face of the Earth due to Trump being an incompetent idiot... I'd be very upset.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#180650: Apr 3rd 2017 at 9:02:49 AM

Trump’s budget would hit rural towns especially hard — but they’re willing to trust him

At this point, they're just too far gone. Hell, it's not even cult worship.

They're just straight up Lemmings.


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