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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
So...Russia did an April fools prank about the election interference.
New Survey coming this weekend!As far as the Trump-Russia connection goes, there's conspiracy theories and then there are actual conspiracies. It's blatantly obvious that Russia favored Trump and did serious opposition research on his campaign's behalf, but it's not clear if Trump himself was complicit in that operation to an extent that would be criminal. It would certainly make it easier to impeach him, but I'm prepared for disappointment, and do feel like certain people are putting all their eggs in that one basket.
I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more gloating about what is seemingly one of the biggest feats of espionage in the 21st century.
edited 1st Apr '17 7:12:44 PM by CaptainCapsase
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Well, that one was Actually Pretty Funny.
Also, from Cracked, I just found this while lurking in the thread we have for that site: I Was A Hardcore Conservative: What Changed My Mind
, and I've got to say that I agree with points 4 and 5 in particular. I'm pretty sure I could've fallen into what's now the alt-right if it wasn't from what I learned about social justice (and injustices) while lurking and reading from many of you in OTC and some stuff in other parts of TV Tropes, so thanks you all for preventing me falling into the alt-right, particularly Aprilla, Gabrael and Unnoun (for the links you post or posted in the Doctor Who thread).
Yeah, I have to confess my views on social justice and general politics have changed a lot since I began frequenting TVT a few years ago.
Before then (especially during my teenage years) I spent a lot of my time online hanging out with people who weren't quite alt-right but closer to that than most of the people here. From them and the general culture of the internet I inherited a lot of unflattering views on women and race and I strongly disliked "SJW's" because I thought they were self-righteous, I didn't understand them or their values and I had no interest in knowing more. I thought that while there was obviously still racism and sexism around, most of it was isolated incidents and things were getting better all the time.
It was only when I distanced myself from that group and started frequenting TVT and other places that I began to get a more nuanced understanding of the issues and began to see the people I previously disliked as complex three-dimensional individuals, and not the caricatures I created in my mind.
It was something very gradual where I didn't actually engage in much of the discussion myself but rather watched other arguments play out among other people. In that regard I think the author of the article is definitely correct that we could be making a difference without knowing at all.
Of course it also helps that my brother is LGBT and has progressive views as well, were it not for that I could see myself having fallen down the rabbit hole of the alt-right. It makes all the sense in the world to a bitter, socially awkward young man who feels threatened by people he doesn't understand.
edited 1st Apr '17 8:21:00 PM by Draghinazzo
I don't really think I ever found myself agreeing with what is now known as the alt-right in any significant capacity beyond a general skepticism of power (and in my case, that extends to all corners of the political spectrum), though I have certainly been able to refine arguments and better articulate views by virtue of the debate practice this place offers. It's less tiring than /pol/, and pretty much the only centrist echo chamber (which is the price of having a civil debate environment rather than an toxic shitshow) I could find to compliment the numerous right wing echo chambers I lurk in to get an idea of what that particular sphere of the Internet is thinking.
edited 1st Apr '17 9:10:46 PM by CaptainCapsase
I've always been a hardcore liberal, but at the same time I know when there are idiots in the liberal camp too. But I still always vote liberal anyhow.
Watch SymphogearRacism and sexism has always made me uncomfortable, so I don't think the alt-right would have ever really appealed to me. I do think, however, that I made a lot of stupid jokes when I was younger than I wouldn't make today, so I'm grateful for that, at least.
As for more social justice stuff, I'm more sympathetic towards people who do stuff like that than I used to be (and I think I leaned more in there direction back then anyway) - my main point of contention was, and still is, a desire not to descend on someone like a pack of attack dogs.
Oh God! Natural light!I was sliding towards the alt-right 2-3 years ago (or atleast on the fence politically) but ended up gradually swinging back once I started doing good in college and things started swinging back. My issue was more dealing with depression and being vulnerable to that kind of rhetoric. Nowadays I wonder why I even saw myself in the Dogged Nice Guy because looking back on it once I truly analyze myself I had very few of those traits beyond being shy and insecure. If I really was one of those type of guys that fall into the alt-right regularly I would of never of met my significant other.
Yeah, I would've never adapted Alt-Right Ideology. I'm too empathetic towards people, and I know history (at least, American History) too well to know what kind of path the Alt-Right will go down. That, and I don't really lurk on the web, so I didn't even know about the Alt-Right until the middle of last year.
This was a really good article with Stephen King on Donald Trump:
Some of my belief arose from the signage I was seeing. I’m from northern New England, and in the run-up to the election I saw hundreds of Trump-Pence signs and bumper stickers, but almost none for Clinton-Kaine. To me this didn’t mean there were no Clinton supporters in the houses I passed or the cars ahead of me on Route 302; what it did seem to mean was that the Clinton supporters weren’t particularly invested. This was not the case with the Trump people, who tended to have billboard-sized signage in their yards and sometimes two stickers on their cars (TRUMP-PENCE on the left; HILLARY IS A CRIMINAL on the right).
Brexit also troubled me. Most of the commentators brushed its importance aside, saying that the issue of whether or not Britain should leave the EU was very different from that of who should become the American president, and besides, British and American voters were very different animals. I agreed with neither assessment, because there was a vibe in the air during most of 2016, a feeling that people were both frightened of the status quo and sick of it. Voters saw a vast and overloaded apple cart lumbering past them. They wanted to upset the motherfucker, and would worry about picking up those spilled apples later. Or just leave them to rot.
Clinton voters were convinced she’d win, even if they saw her as a ho-hum candidate at best. Many did not even bother going to the polls, which was a large (and largely unstated) factor in her loss. Trump voters, on the other hand, could not wait to pull those levers. They didn’t just want change; they wanted a man on horseback. Trump filled the bill.
I had written about such men before. In The Dead Zone, Greg Stillson is a door-to-door Bible salesman with a gift of gab, a ready wit and the common touch. He is laughed at when he runs for mayor in his small New England town, but he wins. He is laughed at when he runs for the House of Representatives (part of his platform is a promise to rocket America’s trash into outer space), but he wins again. When Johnny Smith, the novel’s precognitive hero, shakes his hand, he realizes that some day Stillson is going to laugh and joke his way into the White House, where he will start world war three.
edited 1st Apr '17 9:19:32 PM by MadSkillz
After what the Alt-Right did to my birthplace (Gibraltar) with Brexit, possibly dooming my descendants with Climate Change and sucking off IS Ps who will most likely ruin my life with internet restrictions, I actively want to destroy them.
edited 1st Apr '17 9:24:52 PM by Bat178
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Well the thing is about me I am very empathetic towards peoples plights. The issue with what happened to me was that the alt-right gave an olive branch to me when I was definitely depressed and very vulnerable.
Now I wouldn't say that excuses me briefly sliding towards it but I have noticed that there is a a chunk of people over there that have the same problem (they had depression, were given an olive branch, took the new ideology and ran with it even if it was supporting self-destructive tendacies).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iowa-minimum-wage_us_58dd4b66e4b05eae031e16c6
Iowa, Iowa, Iowa... what the fuck is wrong with you?!!! Have they seen all the horrible shit their politicians have been trying to do and been doing?! Seriously, almost all of the most horrible bills the Republicans have been presenting have been from Iowa!
edited 1st Apr '17 11:49:38 PM by Bat178
Dude, could you seriously fucking chill it on what is sounding like increasingly bigoted bullshit out of you? And yes, saying something's a mistake because of the current political situation is kind of bigoted, and it's getting increasingly troubling.
Anyway, with this move anyone who wants to run against the guy or the Republicans in Iowa in general now has a solid campaign slogan in the making.
@Madskillz
Seriously, WTF.
You are aware that not everyone in Iowa voted Republican right? Especially the poor people who actually need higher minimum wage.
Edit:
Concerning the alt-right and whether or not we might have joined them For Want Of A Nail...
If I had been exposed to alt-right chatrooms in college or high school (I'm a bit older than the typical alt-right demographic)...I'd like to think that the Holocaust denialism, misogyny pretending to be Men's Rights, and general bigotry would have turned me away from them. But I remember myself and my general lack of emotional maturity in those days (and I'm hardly a paragon of maturity even now as can be seen by my posts
). If I met myself (or someone like myself) from those days today, I'd be resisting the urge to smack the stupid out of them.
edited 2nd Apr '17 12:39:47 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedI've never been the sort to support the alt-right as they are now, as my social positions have always been hardcore liberal (as well as having a strong authoritarian streak) - but as I've mentioned before, I was originally a Libertarian economically as well as socially, and I first lost interest in the party largely because everyone who showed up was a hardcore racist and most were Christian dominionists. I still find that I agree with much of the official platform (you know, what's literally said - my ears never did pick up the dogwhistles), and my shift to more socialist economics came as a result of studying economics, but this place was helpful in developing my current traffic-light position. As well as giving me several excellent sparring partners and sources of knowledge.
P.S. It's really hard on a hard-facts guy to be caught in an insulated news bubble. Can you guys believe that it took me until my early 20s before I actually learned how to find the raw data on global warming? Because that was the exact moment that I switched sides on the issue.
Most of my family is usually centrist, though my father is more of a left-wing socialist and my brother currently shows signs of Right-wing support (He told outright me he wanted Geert Wilders to win and for Marine Le Pen as well, mainly because of the Muslim problem), me on the other hand, stands with both Liberalism and benevolent ideals.
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.I don't know if I'd ever have gone full alt-right. My mom was generally apolitical. The one thing I remember most was her being annoyed about why we should even care about Bill Clinton's adultery, since that was for him and Hillary to work out.
After she passed I lived with my brother for a while and, while he's definitely of a conservative mindset, at the time he came off as reasonable. Nowadays, despite his protests to the contrary, I can't help but see him as firmly in the "OBAMA BAD!" camp, even if not full on alt right, but that's neither here nor there.
I think the defining moment for me was a period when I lived with my girlfriend and her family. They had a family friend who, if she's still alive, I could readily see on the alt-right. Liberals were anathema and she outright called moderates "cowards" once.
During the California governor's recall election, the first time I ever voted in anything, she said rusty a vote for the second Republican (McClintock, I think, bit don't hold me to that as until very recently I'd've sworn it was McCain) was as good as voting for the Democrat. This is also why I saw that "a vote for X is a vote for Y" as generally nonsense during the election (still sorting that one out, post-election). However, the other choice in that election was Schwarzenegger and, much like now, them I was more concerned with voting with who I saw as the more competent at the time.
And, for me, that's always been the thing. Nowadays I lean liberal enough I've considered outright registering for Democrat, but more than Left or Right I've always valued competence. As Trump is currently demonstrating, voting along party lines is a very good way to get someone vastly unqualified into a given office.
I don't know that I'd ever have gone alt-right, if only because the alt-right's unthinking "anything against me is evil" mentality would have turned me away the instant I recognized it.
edited 2nd Apr '17 6:16:38 AM by sgamer82

Oh yeah. If I recall, Romney walked out on him when Trump demanded he apologize for calling Trump everything Trump is.