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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@Luigisan: yeah, no. "Give up" in this case means giving up the most prestigious role he's ever had. He's not going to just give that up. He may refuse to run for president again, but he's not going to just quit the presidency. Certainly not this early. Speaking with any certainty that we know that he'll for sure quit just rings of us assuming he couldn't win the presidency to begin with.
Honest question: What's the point of having the presidential pardon as a thing without any limitations on how and when it's used? Because if Trump resigns and Pence pardons him and the non-Trumpist portion of the USA actually honors that pardon despite mountains of solid evidence that he committed a lot of serious crimes by abusing his status as POTUS... Well, let's just say that my already abysmal opinion of the country will find a new chasm to fall into.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
There's a reason the pardoning of Nixon was so controversial.
Only way I see Pence pardoning Trump for anything is if he thinks it will score points with Trump supporters. Thing is, he's an establishment figure and he's not Trump himself. So that might not work out so well. And it would possibly alienate him from the rest of the electorate even further. Even the "moderate" Republicans who only voted Trump reluctantly might be disillusioned by such a move.
edited 31st Mar '17 8:51:31 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
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It was mainly because Alexander Hamilton felt a need for Presidential Pardons in many cases that could allow for the nation or individual state in the union to move on in extreme circumstances. Case in point, George Washington used his pardon powers to forgive the Whiskey Rebellion, and blatantly forgiving them, allowed the newly formed USA to stand together and not fragment like it would have under the Articles of Confederation.
So...blame historical precedent and the circumstances of America's birth I guess?
edited 31st Mar '17 8:51:15 AM by TacticalFox88
New Survey coming this weekend!@Marq: Pardons cannot affect an impeachment and have to be accepted by the Judiciary, and accepting a pardon is also considered an admission of guilt with the particulars going on the public record. In an extreme case, the SCOTUS could reject the pardon and proceed with prosecution, though I do not believe this has ever happened.
Also, this is why Nixon resigned-if he had been formally charged, even Ford could not have saved him.
edited 31st Mar '17 8:52:20 AM by ViperMagnum357
There are methods by which Trump can be forced out; there's some Constitutional Amendment or something in which Pence can try and force Trump out due to being mentally unfit. But it's something that Trump would resist mightily and Pence has to see it as worth it to pursue in the first place. With this garbage fire of an administration, Pence probably doesn't like the idea of being the main target of ongoing investigations.
Seriously though, until something really spectacular happens, we shouldn't be speculating on Trump just up and quitting. There's nothing so far to suggest that he would do that, given his attempts so far at maintaining face. And there's nothing to suggest at this moment that he can be impeached; all the investigations about Russia, while explosive and pretty damning, have yet to actually get to an official conclusion that would result in official action. If they do, it probably will be a while before it gets to that point.
The POTUS can be forced out by a vote of no confidence-50% of the cabinet must countersign a petition by the VPOTUS. Not likely right now, though I imagine those cronies have a lot less loyalty than the Cheeto likes to think; If they find their own neck on the chopping block, I say most of them will cut deals and run for the hills.
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Are there countries in which this is different? For just one example, what's Germany's like?
Also, Senate Intelligence Committee rejects Flynn's request for immunity
.
The former national security adviser's lawyer was told immunity was "wildly preliminary" and "not on the table" at this point, a senior congressional official told NBC. It does not necessarily rule out immunity at a later date, as the Senate investigation is ongoing.
Flynn also offered to speak to the Justice Department in exchange for immunity, according to NBC. At this time, there is no indication that Flynn is admitting guilt to any crimes.
In a statement Thursday, his lawyer said that no "reasonable person" would get questioned in "such a highly politicized, witch hunt environment without assurance against unfair prosecution."
edited 31st Mar '17 9:22:48 AM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!![]()
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If you want to blame anyone for Trump being...Trump...try his asshole father and his Evil Mentor Roy Cohn. And all of the various Yes Men who sucked up to Trump, pandered to his ego, and enabled him. For about seventy fucking years.
edited 31st Mar '17 9:24:23 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedTillerson: Russian sanctions will remain in place until Crimea is returned to the Ukraine.
Watch as Trump makes a liar out of Tillerson in 5...4...3...
"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."Article
on the "Greenwald left" and their denial of the Russia story. More or less a compilation of the arguments that have been leveled in comments sections, and how they boil down to 1) "it's a conspiracy theory", 2) "America deserves it" and 3) "this was never a democracy".
"Are there countries in which this is different? For just one example, what's Germany's like?"
German work culture is also strict and such but it lacks the competitiveness and cut throatiness of U.S one, for example. Just look at the premise of "The Apprentice", "Survivor" and other "reality" shows like that, or look at Dilbert and how it depicts a very dog eat dog culture, whereas in other places it has more of a focus on sometimes duty, sometimes family...
It varies a lot from country to country, and it has many ways to look at it, my perspective is competence theory
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes![]()
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Oh Jesus Christ, I'd happily forgotten that mincing incompetent techbro twat was still writing.
Apparently I can't ignore him out of existence. This reality is bullshit and I want my money back.
edited 31st Mar '17 10:56:35 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

I doubt it. Those types of people are reality proof.
Oh really when?