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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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Don't put words in my mouth.
There is an extremely important caveat, and that is American (and wherever it's been exported to) stockholder culture. It demands that you return profits on the quarter, every quarter, or your capital is going to dry up very quickly.
Economic immigration does not have to be a zero sum game.
edited 29th Mar '17 10:30:41 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotI'm against completely unrestricted immigration. Overhauling and streamlining the immigration process, so that people who wish to come to the US to honestly work toward becoming citizens, contribute to society, and make a better life for themselves can do so in a timely manner? I'm all for it. Letting in anyone and everyone who wants to come in? Not so much. And I don't consider myself xenophobic, racist, or jingoist.
My only concern with illegal immigration in the United States is that the people who do just that, make it more difficult for anyone who has to do all the hard process of emigrating, through legal means, to get in the country. Everyone should be on the same standing regarding who enters America.
edited 29th Mar '17 10:50:59 AM by Grafite
Life is unfair...The people also cling to myths like "clean coal" as an excuse to cling to these dying industries and vote in lunatics who will do anything — anything — to prop them up. The government can't pour medicine down an unwilling throat, as much as it they might want to, or need to.
Democracy is such that if the people, in their overwhelming ignorance and exaltation of their present mediocrity, want to destroy their future, that's their prerogative.
To be clear, there are massive government infrastructural projects just waiting to be completed than these masses of humanity would be perfect for — it would improve our country and put them to work. But they can only happen if the people stop voting in retrograde morons.
edited 29th Mar '17 11:04:40 AM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
In a twisted way it's almost like Korea and Japan's national heritage treasures on a community-wide scale. Except that coal mining is absolutely not some important cultural practice that has to be maintained, so just give up on it already and let it fade into the museums and history books where it belongs.
The workers seizing the means of production and democratizing the economy versus leaving it in the hands of the few.
There are plenty of leftist ideas that Democrats are willing to entertain and discuss but many of them won't follow through on them because many of them have their hands tied by donors.
Economic leftist ideas are reviled by corporations because it hurts them specifically and so they'll try to keep enough influence over the party as a whole to keep it from moving too far to the left.
No nation has completely unrestricted immigration and I should not have implied as such. Rather, the idea that we need "more restrictions" on immigration in a nation like the U.S. is always inherently derived from racist beliefs even if they are not explicit.
A full treatment of the economics would be too lengthy for a simple forum post, but, simply put, immigrants provide population growth in advanced nations that may be in ZPG or NPG among its middle-class and higher population. Example: Japan. Population growth increases consumption, which is required for core GDP growth. Without it, you need to play tricks like running a constant deficit to boost core demand, since the natural attrition of your working population due to aging will reduce labor income over time, and thus consumption.
Immigrants who find jobs in the U.S. pay taxes and buy products, boosting demand and therefore economic growth. Their remittances return in the form of foreign purchases, increasing exports. Studies have found that immigrants generally pay into the system more than they take out, and they tend not to displace skilled jobs but rather to boost the labor force for low-paid, manual jobs, freeing up native labor to take up more skilled positions.
Most of the downside of immigration is due entirely to our broken social/economic policies, such as a shitty national minimum wage and lack of support for the poor and lower middle class in the form of healthcare, quality schools, and the like. And despite what people on the right (and center) like to say, illegal immigrants cannot collect Social Security, are not eligible for Medicaid, and so on. They are not "stealing" anything.
edited 29th Mar '17 12:13:22 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yeah, I never really got that line of reasoning. They're not citizens, so they're not exactly benefiting from all those welfare programs. Their kids are citizens, sure, but that just means the kids will grow up to pay income tax. Plus the "they're stealing our jobs" line, while it could in a racist way be applied to the influx of Asians in the technology industries (who are still citizens or at least legal immigrants), doesn't really apply to to illegal immigrants because I can't really imagine anyone of the WWC wanting to scrub toilets or wash dishes for a living. Is it really stealing if the only jobs they're taking are the jobs you don't want to do?
edited 29th Mar '17 11:27:00 AM by danime91
Case in point: the common accusations of "laziness" and "shiftlessness" among poor minority populations are blatant hypocrisy since studies have shown higher rates of indolence among poor white populations, especially in areas like Appalachia. People who are completely able to work and for whom jobs are available are simply unwilling to put in the effort.
Another case: in Georgia, when local immigration laws caused an exodus of undocumented workers, entire fields of crops went unpicked despite farmers prominently advertising for (legal) workers. Nobody showed up.
edited 29th Mar '17 12:15:02 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"World In Conflict had one of its most heroic characters named Bannon, who ironically sacrificed his life so that the rest of his unit could get to safety before the US military dropped a nuke on Soviet forces invading Washington State.
Even more hilarious is that said Bannon was Ambiguously Gay.
The setting I've constructed does involve him being sacked by way of a country-sized Poison and Cure Gambit, as he's considered to be the actual power holder in Washington DC.
One wonders if that applies in Real Life as well.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanRepresentative Beto O'Rourke (D-TX) is challenging Ted Cruz over his Senate seat next year.

Also, you might want to Google "Crash Course" for both the Economics and History playlists. You might find a few interesting things out about the longer term effects of immigration, once the short term bow waves quit causing shock.
edited 29th Mar '17 10:27:56 AM by Euodiachloris