TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#180051: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:27:21 AM

[up][up]Nope. That's not what was said. Read it again.

Also, you might want to Google "Crash Course" for both the Economics and History playlists. You might find a few interesting things out about the longer term effects of immigration, once the short term bow waves quit causing shock.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:27:56 AM by Euodiachloris

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#180052: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:27:54 AM

[up][up][up] Yes, Fighteer just said that those in favor of restricting immigration or reducing it at all are all racists, xenophobes, jingoists, or morons.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:28:39 AM by justhelping

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180053: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:29:57 AM

[up][up][up][up]Don't put words in my mouth.

There is an extremely important caveat, and that is American (and wherever it's been exported to) stockholder culture. It demands that you return profits on the quarter, every quarter, or your capital is going to dry up very quickly.

Economic immigration does not have to be a zero sum game.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:30:41 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180054: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:40:40 AM

I'm against completely unrestricted immigration. Overhauling and streamlining the immigration process, so that people who wish to come to the US to honestly work toward becoming citizens, contribute to society, and make a better life for themselves can do so in a timely manner? I'm all for it. Letting in anyone and everyone who wants to come in? Not so much. And I don't consider myself xenophobic, racist, or jingoist.

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#180055: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:48:19 AM

[up] Yes, exactly. Making those kinds of generalizations do nothing but foster resent.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:57:49 AM by justhelping

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#180056: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:49:27 AM

My only concern with illegal immigration in the United States is that the people who do just that, make it more difficult for anyone who has to do all the hard process of emigrating, through legal means, to get in the country. Everyone should be on the same standing regarding who enters America.

edited 29th Mar '17 10:50:59 AM by Grafite

Life is unfair...
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#180057: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:52:17 AM

[up][up]How's that working out for Appalachia?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180058: Mar 29th 2017 at 10:57:32 AM

[up]Not well because the people are stubbornly and desperately clinging to a dying industry and the government isn't properly helping by implementing transition and job training programs.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#180059: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:00:52 AM

The people also cling to myths like "clean coal" as an excuse to cling to these dying industries and vote in lunatics who will do anything — anything — to prop them up. The government can't pour medicine down an unwilling throat, as much as it they might want to, or need to.

Democracy is such that if the people, in their overwhelming ignorance and exaltation of their present mediocrity, want to destroy their future, that's their prerogative.

To be clear, there are massive government infrastructural projects just waiting to be completed than these masses of humanity would be perfect for — it would improve our country and put them to work. But they can only happen if the people stop voting in retrograde morons.

edited 29th Mar '17 11:04:40 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180060: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:07:53 AM

[up]In a twisted way it's almost like Korea and Japan's national heritage treasures on a community-wide scale. Except that coal mining is absolutely not some important cultural practice that has to be maintained, so just give up on it already and let it fade into the museums and history books where it belongs.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180061: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:09:12 AM

Ironically, trade with China of all places is one of the only things keeping the US coal industry afloat. And that's not gonna last.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#180062: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:11:13 AM

How is it far to the right? What leftist ideas or issues are there that people won't entertain or discuss?

The workers seizing the means of production and democratizing the economy versus leaving it in the hands of the few.tongue

There are plenty of leftist ideas that Democrats are willing to entertain and discuss but many of them won't follow through on them because many of them have their hands tied by donors.

Economic leftist ideas are reviled by corporations because it hurts them specifically and so they'll try to keep enough influence over the party as a whole to keep it from moving too far to the left.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180063: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:11:18 AM

No nation has completely unrestricted immigration and I should not have implied as such. Rather, the idea that we need "more restrictions" on immigration in a nation like the U.S. is always inherently derived from racist beliefs even if they are not explicit.

A full treatment of the economics would be too lengthy for a simple forum post, but, simply put, immigrants provide population growth in advanced nations that may be in ZPG or NPG among its middle-class and higher population. Example: Japan. Population growth increases consumption, which is required for core GDP growth. Without it, you need to play tricks like running a constant deficit to boost core demand, since the natural attrition of your working population due to aging will reduce labor income over time, and thus consumption.

Immigrants who find jobs in the U.S. pay taxes and buy products, boosting demand and therefore economic growth. Their remittances return in the form of foreign purchases, increasing exports. Studies have found that immigrants generally pay into the system more than they take out, and they tend not to displace skilled jobs but rather to boost the labor force for low-paid, manual jobs, freeing up native labor to take up more skilled positions.

Most of the downside of immigration is due entirely to our broken social/economic policies, such as a shitty national minimum wage and lack of support for the poor and lower middle class in the form of healthcare, quality schools, and the like. And despite what people on the right (and center) like to say, illegal immigrants cannot collect Social Security, are not eligible for Medicaid, and so on. They are not "stealing" anything.

edited 29th Mar '17 12:13:22 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180064: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:25:40 AM

[up]Yeah, I never really got that line of reasoning. They're not citizens, so they're not exactly benefiting from all those welfare programs. Their kids are citizens, sure, but that just means the kids will grow up to pay income tax. Plus the "they're stealing our jobs" line, while it could in a racist way be applied to the influx of Asians in the technology industries (who are still citizens or at least legal immigrants), doesn't really apply to to illegal immigrants because I can't really imagine anyone of the WWC wanting to scrub toilets or wash dishes for a living. Is it really stealing if the only jobs they're taking are the jobs you don't want to do?

edited 29th Mar '17 11:27:00 AM by danime91

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#180065: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:42:33 AM

Case in point: the common accusations of "laziness" and "shiftlessness" among poor minority populations are blatant hypocrisy since studies have shown higher rates of indolence among poor white populations, especially in areas like Appalachia. People who are completely able to work and for whom jobs are available are simply unwilling to put in the effort.

Another case: in Georgia, when local immigration laws caused an exodus of undocumented workers, entire fields of crops went unpicked despite farmers prominently advertising for (legal) workers. Nobody showed up.

edited 29th Mar '17 12:15:02 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180066: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:44:04 AM

Never underestimate the power of White Rage.

New Survey coming this weekend!
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180067: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:45:49 AM

The real white privilege is being able to complain about what everyone else is doing while doing the same thing, but in your case it's justified.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180068: Mar 29th 2017 at 11:58:10 AM

Plus the "they're stealing our jobs" line, while it could in a racist way be applied to the influx of Asians in the technology industries

And on that note, screw Bannon.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#180069: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:06:53 PM

Does anyone else think that the name "Bannon" alone sounds creepy?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180070: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:08:23 PM

Steve Bannon sounds like a Comic Book villain name.

Which is oddly fitting.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#180071: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:12:08 PM

OTOH, there's Race Bannon from Jonny Quest. tongue

Disgusted, but not surprised
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#180072: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:14:15 PM

World In Conflict had one of its most heroic characters named Bannon, who ironically sacrificed his life so that the rest of his unit could get to safety before the US military dropped a nuke on Soviet forces invading Washington State.

Even more hilarious is that said Bannon was Ambiguously Gay.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#180073: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:24:34 PM

The setting I've constructed does involve him being sacked by way of a country-sized Poison and Cure Gambit, as he's considered to be the actual power holder in Washington DC.

One wonders if that applies in Real Life as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#180074: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:28:50 PM

Representative Beto O'Rourke (D-TX) is challenging Ted Cruz over his Senate seat next year.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#180075: Mar 29th 2017 at 12:35:31 PM

Tie his ass to Trump. Bigly.

New Survey coming this weekend!

Total posts: 417,856
Top