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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#179701: Mar 26th 2017 at 3:22:41 PM

No mention of the Dunning-Kruger effect? sad

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#179702: Mar 26th 2017 at 3:28:27 PM

manifestations of hubris — often masked as charisma or charm — are commonly mistaken for leadership potential, and ... leaderless groups have a natural tendency to elect self-centered, overconfident and narcissistic individuals as leaders

This is Trump. Or perhaps it should be said, Trump is a personification of this.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#179703: Mar 26th 2017 at 3:41:53 PM

So some live vicariously through the narcissism of others? That is interesting, and explains a lot.

Do not obey in advance.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#179704: Mar 26th 2017 at 3:53:02 PM

Does anyone here listen to the NPR podcast "Hidden Brain." They just did a rather fascinating episode on why people believe "alternative facts" in politics, and when presented with the evidence that proves that their belief is based on a false premise, they just double down.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/13/519661419/when-it-comes-to-politics-and-fake-news-facts-arent-enough

edited 26th Mar '17 3:58:06 PM by megaeliz

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179705: Mar 26th 2017 at 3:57:40 PM

Nothing from the more standard news sources that I can find yet, so grain-of-salt, but I'm hearing that Putin put out what is essentially an thinly veiled threat in English on the Russian foreign ministry website saying that some of what they have on us may see leaks of the Trump/Russia investigation continues.

Found it, part of an interview with Russia’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova.

http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2703372?p_p_id=101_INSTANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw&_101_INSTANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw_languageId=en_GB#sel=31:1:Zj6,33:16:yrj

Ctrl+F "Rex Tillerson will " to go straight to the section I saw quoted.

The specific portion quoted, near the end if that spot:

Also, I would like to say that if the practice of leaking information that concerns not just the United States but also Russia, which has become a tradition in Washington in the past few years, continues, there will come a day when the media will publish leaks about the things that Washington asked us to keep secret, for example, things that happened during President Obama’s terms in office. Believe me, this could be very interesting information.

Our American colleagues must decide if they respect the diplomatic procedure, if they keep their word on the arrangements made between us, primarily arrangements made at their own request, or we create a few very nice surprises for each other

edited 26th Mar '17 4:03:04 PM by sgamer82

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#179706: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:04:33 PM

[up]All that's going to prove is that there is a Russiangate scandel going on. Nothing more, nothing less.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#179707: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:05:51 PM

What could Putin have on Washington that would truly undermine our confidence in it?

Do not obey in advance.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179708: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:07:57 PM

Specifically what could they have at this point?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#179709: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:08:16 PM

[up][up]More than it has been already anyway? {Rimshot}

edited 26th Mar '17 4:08:47 PM by kkhohoho

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#179710: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:20:51 PM

Exactly.

edited 26th Mar '17 4:21:15 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#179711: Mar 26th 2017 at 4:56:28 PM

Probably something that could put the safety of the congresspeople involved at risk. That or more emails via Wikileaks.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#179712: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:17:56 PM

Or they could just start making things up.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#179713: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:18:34 PM

Or perhaps they know something that could harm US foreign relations (like the tapping of leaders' phones).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#179714: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:23:52 PM

[up][up]Hm...

PUTIN: OK, so get this Americans! Turns out that George Washington was actually an alien spy sent by angels from on high because God hates every living thing due to having an elispy when he was little which was caused by a time-traveling Obama and that said time travel machine runs on abortions due to a space-time flux courtesy of the Tuska incident and the Roswell aliens who are planning on learning How to Serve Man and it's all thanks to Donald Trump as well as Rod Sterling's rotting corpse.

Honestly, I'm impressed with the sheer level of bullshit I can cook up when I put my mind to it.tongue

edited 26th Mar '17 5:24:41 PM by kkhohoho

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#179715: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:33:30 PM

Anything Russia releases will be to advance its goals: so dividing the US and Europe, dividing Europe, weakening American influence around the world, and undermining the democratic order.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#179716: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:36:01 PM

And trying to make trump look just as bad as the others, so releasing tax returns of other senators.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#179717: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:49:03 PM

When it comes to women leaders, a large part of the issue is that leaders are expected to act "alpha," but women who act nearly as arrogantly as is expected of the average man are seen as unattractive and "bitchy." Margaret Thatcher being called The Iron Lady was not a compliment until she managed to turn it around in the wake of the Falklands War. The Double Standard has been screwing women leaders over for at least a thousand years.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#179718: Mar 26th 2017 at 5:50:47 PM

From Eschaton's article:

"... It’s possible to imagine a Republican health-care politics that rejects the ultra-redistributionary approach of the ACA and instead argues that since all benefit from health coverage, all must contribute to its costs via some kind of broad-based tax. It’s possible to imagine a Republican health-care politics that emphasizes cost control over benefit provision. It’s possible to imagine a Republican health-care politics that incentivizes providers and insurers to achieve better outcomes at lower prices. It’s possible to imagine a Republican health-care politics that resists socializing the burden of addiction, obesity, and other unhealthy behaviors. It’s possible to imagine a Republican Party that cares about the details of health policy and is not satisfied with poorly informed hand waves toward outworn party shibboleths."

Possible to imagine, perhaps, but the road there would be long and winding even if the Republican leadership wanted to go there. The real problem is that they don't really want this- actually solving problems is a much harder way to whip up their base than fake news and hyperbole. They have tied their reputation to propaganda, and I dont know if they even can back down now.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#179719: Mar 26th 2017 at 6:00:19 PM

Maybe it's me, but I think the explanation Biden had of "my son died" is a much better one for why he didn't run. Do I think he would have beaten Clinton in the primary had he run? I don’t see it. The path to beating Clinton was from the left, like Sanders, but with more longstanding connections to crucial party constituencies. Biden is a dead ringer for Clinton ideologically, and if anything he’s closer to financial industry.

Yes but Biden isn't under FBI investigation or disliked like Hillary is. Biden's also got a bit of that charisma.

Biden wouldn't have brought out anyone new to vote but he would've picked off supporters from both sides.

That he resembles Hillary ideologically is what makes me think that it would've ultimately come down between Sanders and Biden rather than Hillary.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#179720: Mar 26th 2017 at 6:02:16 PM

[up][up][up]Thatcher was professionally coached to lower her voice an octave because of the perception that men will never follow a woman unless she can sound as mannish as possible, so there was definitely gender bias against her.

That said, there was more than just gender bias going on. In her day, she was fringe right, an extremist by the standards of the day. She shifted the centre ground of politics significantly right and the other parties couldn't catch up until Tony Blair shifted the left wing right to meet the new definition of 'centre'. As a result, the antipathy towards her was not simply because she was a woman. There was far more going on than that.

On the earlier post regarding Trump giving the £300bn bill to Merkel, and the article's comment that it was supposed to be an 'intimidation' bill. I think it's fairly clear that Trump can't see past the fact that Merkel is a woman. He has very ingrained ideas about women and Merkel defies his perception of women. While he claims he's for women's rights and points to women working around him, he still expects them to dress and behave in a certain way, and they are defined by what limited use they have for him.

In Merkel's case, she doesn't fit any of his definitions of what a useful woman actually is. She doesn't doll herself up; she doesn't have a position that answers to a man and is limited by what the man in power needs from her. He's clearly approaching this from the point of view that the US is 'alpha' to Germany, that he is 'alpha' to Merkel, and that she therefore needs to be submissive to his every demand. While he has that attitude in general anyway (even to men), there is some indication that he really doesn't know how to deal with women who are leaders in their own right.

Merkel won't give him the time of day, and he'll struggle to comprehend that.

edited 26th Mar '17 6:08:49 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#179721: Mar 26th 2017 at 6:04:46 PM

[up][up]I agree. Biden could have gotten Democratic turnout up just enough to hold the Rust Belt. He didn't have the scandals holding him down, and he would have mauled Trump during the debates.

As for Sanders, I doubt that (unless everyone else drops out, becomes non viable, etc) he ever had the support within the party base to win. He never came within striking distance of Clinton, and Biden would have walked all over him. Now, if Biden and Clinton split the vote in a hypothetical three way race, maybe Sanders makes things interesting.

edited 26th Mar '17 6:06:06 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#179722: Mar 26th 2017 at 6:32:21 PM

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/18/498309357/too-sweet-or-too-shrill-the-double-bind-for-women

This brings up a lot of good points about how woman are treated in leadership positions. If a woman is too nice, she is not taken seriously, while if she is too aggressive, people would consider her to be a threat. And if a woman is undeniably successful, she is often seen as unlikable or cold. We've even seen this demonstrated in Hillary Clinton's campaign.

edited 26th Mar '17 6:34:41 PM by megaeliz

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#179723: Mar 26th 2017 at 6:39:04 PM

All that's going to prove is that there is a Russiangate scandel going on. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, it is been said that Putin has a tell, which is that he denies accusations immediately if they're true, so...

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#179724: Mar 26th 2017 at 7:10:34 PM

Genuin questions: I've been reading claims that some people who voted for Trump are now in danger of being deported because they illegally entered the country. Are those stories confirmed?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#179725: Mar 26th 2017 at 7:15:02 PM

[up] I recall someone else posted an article about one such case. A Trump supporter who bought in to the "deport all the illegals" crap on the assumption that Trump was only going to deport the "bad" ones was married to a guy who was technically an undocumented immigrant.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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