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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#179601: Mar 25th 2017 at 5:04:21 PM

In a Democratic primary, I think gender wouldn't have mattered as much.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#179602: Mar 25th 2017 at 5:06:12 PM

[up]and because is name dosent end with clinton, Trump outsider status make him somewhat inmune to scandals(well, kinda) and he only lost so much because is unstable nature and the debate(which why I think Bernie should debate him, Trump didn really have a change there)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#179603: Mar 25th 2017 at 5:13:43 PM

A Biden campaign in 2016 would probably have ended on a three-way deathmatch until DC (last primary in the schedule) or one of the three dropped. Biden would've had more overlap with Sanders and less with Hillary than some seem to think. I'm leaning slightly towards a Hillary win in that What If? because I assume she'd keep the lead on female voters she had on the primaries, even if she splits the older voters and/or minorities demographic with Biden, but I could see the race going to any of the three. Also, I agree with Azsur that there's a bit of a meme of "Hillary is evil/corrupt" that makes people underestimate her chances.

But yeah, in a general with Biden as a candidate, I believe he could have fared better than Hillary because he wouldn't have had the sexism of many USans pushing against him.

@Parable: BTW, according to 538, that was kind of a misconception from the media. The race would've always favored the republican candidate because of the fundamentals*.

*A bit of a Shoutout here to Capsase because he always kept mentioning that point before the election until he was (temporarily) banned.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#179604: Mar 25th 2017 at 5:19:34 PM

When it comes to the primaries, I think that people underestimate Hillary a lot. When it comes to the general elections, I think people also underestimate the fact that the republican party could put a literall ball pen point as a candidate and their people would still vote for that over anything else, simply because it's the candidate the republican party put forth.

Many of the republican voters are tied to the evangelist votes, ever since the 70s, and they are absentee voters that are organized to make their votes cast (remember am ajority of the absentee votes are ignored). These numbers are easily millions, that as you know can easily turn the tides from one side to the other in U.S elections

[up]There are however ufndamental votes the republican party can always count on: The wackier evangelists, that command large enough segregations to make voting in certain regions basically impossible to overturn

edited 25th Mar '17 5:42:31 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#179605: Mar 25th 2017 at 5:48:25 PM

Adding to the post earlier on this page: Bannon wanted to use healthcare vote to make enemies list. I've said this before and I'll say it again: GET BANNON OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. He is a danger to this country with such authoritarian intimidation tactics and his masturbatory fantasy of tearing down Washington from the inside. At least the healthcare bill didn't pass, but it's a temporary victory. This guy needs to be watched like a hawk, because who knows what he'll try to pull next.

edited 25th Mar '17 5:50:07 PM by speedyboris

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#179607: Mar 25th 2017 at 6:10:19 PM

This was not a victory of reason. Trumpcare died because the most reactionary members of the Republican party in the House didn't think it was extreme enough. We're still deep in crazytown.

But sometimes crazy can be exploited or benefited from.

"The next best thing to having a reliable ally is having a predictable enemy." — Sam Starfall

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#179608: Mar 25th 2017 at 6:11:37 PM

[up][up][up]That sort of thing is why it's significant that so many Republicans were against this. If there were, say, 5 of them that voted against it, those five could be be intimidated, ostracized, sabotaged, bribed, or whatever. But 50 is far too big a number for those tactics to work.

edited 25th Mar '17 6:11:51 PM by Gilphon

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#179609: Mar 25th 2017 at 6:55:34 PM

Bannon is a dangerous fanatic. But at least he's trying to make the Republican party hate him as much as possible.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#179610: Mar 25th 2017 at 7:55:37 PM

Like most everyone else?

(Rimshot)

Do not obey in advance.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#179611: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:21:40 PM

Trump is officially throwing Paul Ryan under the bus and wants him to resign.

"Paul Ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house," Pirro said, beginning her show. "The reason? He failed to deliver the votes on his health care bill, the one trumpeted to repeal and replace Obamacare. The one that he had seven years to work on. The one he hid under lock and key in the basement of Congress. The one that had to be pulled to prevent the embarrassment of not having enough votes to pass."

"But this bill didn't just fail," she continued. "It failed when Republicans had the House, the Senate, the White House."

The network host assured viewers that she hasn't spoken with Trump about the subject, but it seemed as though the president knew she would cover the issue on her show when Trump tweeted earlier in the day to "watch @Judge Jeanine on @Fox News tonight at 9:00 P.M."

"Americans elected the one man they believed could do it: A complete outsider beholden to no one but them," said Pirro on her show. "And Speaker Ryan, you come in with all your swagger and experience and you sell them a bill of goods which ends up a complete and total failure, and you allow our president, in his first 100 days, to come out of he box like that?"

"I want to be clear," she concluded. "This is not on President Trump. No one expected a businessman to completely understand the nuances, the complicated ins and outs of Washington and its legislative process. How would he know which individuals upon whom he would be able to rely?"

Breitbart has also been going in hard on Paul Ryan recently saying he should resign too.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#179612: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:24:15 PM

[up] I think he should resign, but I wouldn't be against him keeping the speakership just to piss off Trump and his comrades. Ryan's probably gonna lose the speakership in 2018 anyways, so he might as well just stay on board.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#179613: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:29:12 PM

Huh, even after the vote failed Trump was talking about how Ryan did a great job. Strange how fickle he can be.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#179614: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:31:09 PM

But I thought President Trump didn't blame Ryan?

Is Trump really just a vindictive, ignorant, petty man child after all? Of course he fucking is.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179615: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:36:51 PM

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/325804-dan-rather-failure-to-repeal-obamacare-most-staggering-loss-so

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158400875185716&id=24085780715

Seems Dan Rather had an answer for my "had a President ever failed so hard so early" question. Spoiler alert: it's no. At least it's the biggest, earliest failure Rather had ever seen. I think he'd know.

edited 25th Mar '17 8:43:41 PM by sgamer82

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#179616: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:48:06 PM

So, apparently Bannon was trying out some eleventy-dimensional chess, and using the vote to draw up a list of enemies/targets. What can he do with that? Trump can't just fire elected officials. He can try and shut them out, but he and his handlers were doing that anyway. And of course, we're never going to get rid of the bastard early if the Republican majority Congress wants to keep Trump.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#179617: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:48:12 PM

Well if Paul Ryan steps down then they'd have no one for the Speaker role.

So then the line of succession goes Trump -> Pence -> Orrin Hatch -> Tillerson

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179618: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:50:41 PM

Plus a list to single out enemies seems less useful when it's in double digits

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#179619: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:55:27 PM

They'll elect a new Speaker. That's kind of how the process works. Trump and Bannon can't tear down the structure of government until they're the only ones left to run things.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#179620: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:58:28 PM

[up] This: The House always has to have a Speaker. If Paul Ryan does step down, an Election would immediately be held and the Republicans would just pick some new guy to replace Ryan. The same thing happened when Boehner retired 2 years ago.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#179621: Mar 25th 2017 at 8:59:06 PM

I guess we're lucky that the Trump regime is dumb enough to believe its own hype. Well, on the domestic side, anyway. Foreign policy is already a nightmare.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#179622: Mar 25th 2017 at 9:17:55 PM

The other reason a list of "enemies" wouldn't work too well is because there were three reasons people were moving against the new bill. 1) They think it sucks and that Obamacare just needs some work. 2) Their constituents hate the new bill. 3) They don't want any healthcare system at all. Bannon seems like he would get along with the third category just fine, but he wouldn't be able to tell from the voting results because there's no details on why someone voted a certain way.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#179623: Mar 25th 2017 at 9:23:15 PM

Doesn't Trump realize that if he pisses off Ryan enough he could just order the House to start an investigation into Russia?

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#179624: Mar 25th 2017 at 9:33:06 PM

Bannon probably thinks he can kill or bully the congressmen for all his delusions. Or possibly he wants to fire them and leave yet another branch of the government in disarray.

edited 25th Mar '17 9:33:21 PM by fruitpork

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#179625: Mar 25th 2017 at 9:35:03 PM

Ryan and the congress republican need the guys' hand to sign the bills. If they initiated the processes to force him out, it would hurt them and their credibility. No matter how much of a standard republican Pence is, he'd be tainted by association in the proceedings.


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