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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#179101: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:52:10 PM

I was under the impression the speech was the return for the investment.
And just hearing her speak (something they could've gotten for free by turning on the television) was worth millions of dollars? I don't buy it.

I wish you'd stop confusing single payer with universal healthcare.

If there isn't a single payer covering everyone, how is it "universal"?

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:54:05 PM by SeriesOfNumbers

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#179102: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:52:52 PM

Hearing her speak in person, specifically to them was worth millions of dollars.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179103: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:54:34 PM

[up][up] As noted above, a former Secretary of State can command a high salary. So I do buy it (figuratively)

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:55:00 PM by sgamer82

SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#179104: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:55:03 PM

Hearing her speak in person, specifically to them was worth millions of dollars.

And if you believe that was all they wanted and they weren't expecting her to do them favors as President, I think you're incredibly naive.

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:55:49 PM by SeriesOfNumbers

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179105: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:56:07 PM

[up] She was a private citizen and not running for anything. Unless there was absolute guarantee she planned to (which, to be fair, there may have been) there wouldn't be much point in paying hey for favors.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the average going rate for such speakers? Might give us some perspective here.

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:57:28 PM by sgamer82

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#179106: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:56:36 PM

[up][up]And I think you don't really know how guest speakers and these types of events work.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#179107: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:57:12 PM

Series, let me ask you something. Trump has appointed several Goldman Sachs people to positions in the White House. He's also got an Exxon CEO as Secretary of State and there are probably others I can't think of off the top of my head. Do you honestly think Clinton would have been appointing these types of people?

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#179108: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:57:21 PM

Goldman Sachs hires famous people all the time to give speeches. It might actually be the standard fee.

[up][up][up] I don't know about Goldman Sachs, but I know that Nestle Switzerland had a former Swiss Federal Councillor speak once and they paid her 1 million Swiss Francs. The standard in the US is probably a lot higher for pay.

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:58:57 PM by Zendervai

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179109: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:58:36 PM

[up] Yeah. It child well be Clinton isn't so far above the norm.

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:00:16 PM by sgamer82

SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#179110: Mar 22nd 2017 at 4:58:44 PM

You know, Series, it's getting very hard to have this conversation with you. It's the same broken record over and over.

Because over and over, you ignore mountains of evidence and refuse to see what's in front of your face and should be obvious. I think you're in deep denial. I can see, however, that I'm not going to convince anyone here, that no one here is going to except the facts no matter how much I evidence I provide, and that all conversations about Clinton and Democratic corruption are going in circles, so I'll drop it.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179111: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:00:51 PM

I've asked before, but is Clinton's "corruption", be it real or imagined, really relevant anymore?

She's more or less a Democratic cheerleader now, and I find it hard to believe anyone could say keeping her out of the office justifies the last fifty+ days of fustercluck under Trump. For all the cries of "Lock Her Up", nobody seems actually interested in doing so now she's currently not a threat

I've said multiple times that, to me, her corruption no longer mattered after she became the candidate. You can say whatever you want about Sanders being cheated out of his chance and all that, but after the primaries, none of it mattered, or it shouldn't have, in the face of a Trump Presidency

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:04:19 PM by sgamer82

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#179112: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:05:21 PM

[up][up] You have constructed a brilliant mental fantasy and insist on wallowing in it, constructing mountains of accusations out of molehills of evidence and refusing all explanations that contradict your ideas. You're stuck in it because admitting you're wrong might in turn reveal how you've helped Trump and his cronies win elections. You can go off and play victim all you want, but we won't put up with it any more than we'd put up with MAGA bullcrap from an "honest" Trump supporter. So yeah, I think it's best you leave.

(We don't have the tech to ban people from specific topics. If you can't leave this one alone, however, OTC will get blocked again.)

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:06:09 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#179113: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:06:09 PM

Series, let me ask you something. Trump has appointed several Goldman Sachs people to positions in the White House. He's also got an Exxon CEO as Secretary of State and there are probably others I can't think of off the top of my head. Do you honestly think Clinton would have been appointing these types of people?

Maybe. She's definitely corrupt enough to do such a thing, but going so far as to brazenly flaunt her corruption by putting it in her cabinet might not have been her style. More likely, she'd have appointed such people to lower-profile positions in the bureaucracy and/or invited them to conference calls a lot.

Clinton and Trump are both corrupt corporate puppets (or rather, he is and she was), but she is/was more insidious and clever than him about hiding her corruption. The one advantage to Trump's corruption over and Democrat's is that he doesn't even try to hide it because he's as dumb as a brick.

Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#179115: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:07:43 PM

Nevermind.

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:09:05 PM by Advarielle

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#179116: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:07:51 PM

Nevermind, was asking something of SeriesOfNumbers, but that's no longer necessary.

Though I do ask again, seriously, does Clinton's corruption even matter anymore at this point?

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:09:47 PM by sgamer82

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#179117: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:08:37 PM

Sean Spicer says there is no "Plan B" for Healthcare if Ryancare fails.

That's wicked funny. It'd be funnier if people weren't gonna get screwed. We're gonna see tomorrow if it can even make it to the Senate...

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#179118: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:12:39 PM

[up][up] Not really; it's not like she's going to run again. But the narrative that Clinton stole the nomination continues to be essential for these alt-left wackjobs to justify acting as if they are the only true progressives. It's a manifestation of the Sunk Cost Fallacy. It has to be true or they're forced to admit that they helped elect Trump.

[up] The sad part about this from my perspective is that it doesn't affect me — I have high-quality employer-sponsored health insurance for myself and my family. But I know people who would be screwed if this "repeal and replace" passed. Thank goodness that it probably won't, but it certainly isn't due to any Democratic efforts — other than full resistance, of course. It's entirely due to the grotesque incompetence of the Republicans.

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:19:35 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#179119: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:20:45 PM

Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Alab.) says he will vote AGAINST Ryancare. This is one of the people I personally voted for last year. I'm feeling slightly better for voting for him.

He wants mass deportations, though. Did not know that when I voted for him. Will not vote for him again.

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:21:45 PM by DingoWalley1

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#179120: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:25:28 PM

Okay, so, if the GOP who've spent THIRTY YEARS, trying to uncover corruption or anything that would take her down and they've found NOTHING, shouldn't that be a GIGANTIC Red Flag that says "Hey, maybe these corruption allegations might be a bit overblown?"

New Survey coming this weekend!
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#179121: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:25:36 PM

Somebody should set up some sort of Yelp review for Congresscritters.

"My Rep voted to repeal ACA. 0/10. Would not vote for again."

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#179122: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:26:53 PM

[up][up]Allegations that themselves came from the alt-right: specifically, Breitbart and that other place. So these "progressives" are aping attack lines created by Republicans specifically to tear down Clinton's reputation with progressives, and completely unaware of the irony.

edited 22nd Mar '17 5:27:01 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#179123: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:29:04 PM

Watch this.

Tell me that Barnie Frank wasn't a goddamn prophet. This was before Sanders craze took off.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#179124: Mar 22nd 2017 at 5:39:25 PM

Just as a note, as far as universal healthcare goes: Most first-world countries have a sort of mix of private and public care to achieve universal healthcare:

  • Japan pays for, I believe 70% of everyone's fees up to a certain limit, but it’s on individuals to pay the other 3o. They've managed this by strictly limiting user fees. It also requires citizens to have personal health insurance, although it maintains an insurance fund for those who cannot afford their own.
  • Italy and Spain have public hospitals anyone can use, but a system of private hospitals which require insurance.
  • France requires all citizens to enroll in insurance plans supplied by a small number of national level nonprofit private insurers who deduct some fees from the paychecks. There's a national fund for those like the elderly, disabled, etc.
  • Australia has a Medicare For All But Better If You Can Afford It sort of plan.
  • The Netherlands uses a mandate for everyone to get insurance, with tightly regulated industries.

Single payer is not the only form for UHC. The ACA is a bit of a mix: it requires individuals to get private insurance, but maintains subsidies ideally for those too poor, and for others, included a Medicaid expansion to cover them if they were too poor. With a public option, it would lead to a form of UHC, albeit not single payer.

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#179125: Mar 22nd 2017 at 6:08:31 PM

I don't know how interested we are, but VA governor candidate Tom Perriello did an AMA on r/politics.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison

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