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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#178976: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:33:37 AM

I am roundly sick of the Justice Democrats. These people are hardly progressive. They're purists in the worst sense, attempting to swing districts they have no connection to, nor that they understand. The hypocrisy coming from them is extraordinary.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178977: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:44:11 AM

[up] It also bears repeating that these people and Our Revolution (geez what is it with these pretentious names?) supported (and likely still support) Gabbard and Canova of all people.

edited 22nd Mar '17 7:44:44 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#178978: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:48:10 AM

Terrell J. Starr on Jacobin whitesplaining PoC support for the Clintons.

I wonder how long until its readers are being urged to uphold Juche thought and hate catgirls.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178979: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:50:32 AM

[up] I actually never heard of Jacobin magazine before.

I kind of wish that was still the case.

edited 22nd Mar '17 7:54:06 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178980: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:55:19 AM

In Today's Episode of Didn't Think this Through: U.S. farm heartland lobbies to steer Trump away from Mexico trade war

Farmers in the U.S. agricultural heartland that helped elect Donald Trump are now pushing his administration to avoid a trade dispute with Mexico, fearing retaliatory tariffs that could hit over $3 billion in U.S. exports.

"We just keep pounding them on how critical trade is to us," said Weber, who fears Mexico could revive the list of mostly agricultural products it successfully used to push Washington into letting Mexican truckers on U.S. highways in 2011.

Pork products topped that list and, if revived, the tariffs would apply to over $800 million of annual pork exports, according to data compiled by IHS Markit's Global Trade Atlas. "We'll be the first to take the hit," Weber said.

In Iowa, where pigs outnumber people seven to one, hog and grain farmer Jamie Schmidt voted for Trump in part on his promise to cut regulatory burdens for businesses.

Now he and others who farm the flat, rich land around Garner, Iowa, worry about trade. Schmidt gets about half of his income from hogs, earning $4-5 for each of the 425 pigs he sells per week, usually to a Tyson Foods (TSN.N) packing plant in nearby Perry, Iowa.

Tariffs from Mexico could depress U.S. wholesale prices and wipe out his profits, Schmidt said. "It would be devastating."

In December, after fears of a trade dispute fueled a deep peso MXN= slump, Mexico started mapping out U.S. states that are most reliant on its market, replicating the strategy it used in the trucking dispute, said two senior Mexican officials.

Mexican officials also prepared briefs, seen by Reuters, on Mexico's own risks in a dispute, including losing much of its cost advantage in building cars, such as the Ford Fusion (F.N) made in Hermosillo, Mexico.

...[Mexico's] foreign minister said last month tariffs could target Iowa, which raises a third of U.S. hogs and exports about a quarter of its pork production, $100 million of which went to Mexico last year.

The minister also said tariffs could aim at Wisconsin, the center of U.S. cheese production, and has singled out Texas for its "notable" trade surplus with Mexico. All three states voted for Trump in the 2016 election, with the president taking Iowa and Wisconsin by slim margins.

Weber of the pork producers group said he believed the Trump administration "gets it" when it comes to the vulnerability of U.S. farm exports. Republican Congressman Steve King, who represents Iowa's agriculture-focused fourth district, also pointed out that Iowa's role as the first state to hold presidential primaries helps keep farm interests in Washington's view.

King said he has been in contact with the White House on the matter but has yet to secure a one-on-one meeting with the president. "I'm making sure that here in Washington they know what this means."

I'm tempted to play a small violin, but these are food producers here. I'd rather not be reminded of Trump's stupidity come lunchtime. Plus Oliver's Contract Farming video still gave me some lingering sympathy for these types. (Although in that context, voting to favor the guy promising to cut regulations was...you know what I'll play the violin...)

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178981: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:57:17 AM

[up] They voted against their own interests when they should have known better. SMH

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#178982: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:00:08 AM

I wonder if Trump's screw ups will hurt certain demographics enough that they'll actually learn something and turn away from the GOP?

I can dream.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#178983: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:04:07 AM

The Russian mob was operating out of Trump Tower? How many sketchy connections to Russia does the guy need before it warrants a full investigation? This is getting ridiculous.

According to the article, there was an investigation but it failed to indite Trump. Of course, whether that was legitimate or a result of Trump having sway over the government even before he ran for office (as is often true for the rich in our system), we don't know.

These people are hardly progressive.

Based on what?

They're purists in the worst sense, attempting to swing districts they have no connection to, nor that they understand.

Evidence?

The hypocrisy coming from them is extraordinary.

What hypocrisy would that be?

I know at this point people are going to start talking about Cenk Uyger's dark side, but from what I can gather, all he did was help set up the infrastructure of the group. I don't see any evidence that he's running it.

By the way, can we all agree that Wikileaks isn't a pro-Trump group now that it's leaked stuff that makes agencies look bad while said agencies are under Trump's command? And yes, I'm just as happy about this more recent leak as I was about the DNC leaks.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#178984: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:09:14 AM

You know what's hypocrisy? On and on and ON about 'corporate influence in politics' while anointing a guy who rode the NRA to power, supported the gun companies and Lockheed Martin because it provided nice pork for his state as the messiah.

Hypocrisy is demonizing Warren and Perez while championing people as worthless as Canova and Gabbard. The candidates they're putting up? It's just "use PROGRESSIVES to challenge them!" In Red States. In areas with no real liberal base.

It's a borderline cult built around Sanders (or a mythological perception) than a real movement.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#178985: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:12:20 AM

As evidence of hypocrisy, I point to Tulsi Gabbard - she's a conservative democrat who loves her some Assad and other authoritarian nutbars, and in general the same or worse than Manchin. She's exactly the kind of fake-liberal shameless opportunist many Bernie-or-Busters claimed Clinton was, but many of these Berniecrat groups have no problem with her or express any desire to primary her out of her seat in sapphire-blue Hawaii because she said nice things about Blessed Bernie.

They also supported Canova who is basically a shitbar who got to look a little less shitty by running against the literal face of DNC mismanagement and (perceived) corruption... and still lost.

Oh, and then there's shilling Ellison over Perez despite a lack of difference in policy, then getting mad at Ellison for being reasonable about being deputy chair.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:15:16 AM by Balmung

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#178986: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:13:11 AM

And, if I'm being very charitable, her record on LGBT rights is questionable.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178987: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:13:32 AM

By the way, can we all agree that Wikileaks isn't a pro-Trump group now that it's leaked stuff that makes agencies look bad while said agencies are under Trump's command? And yes, I'm just as happy about this more recent leak as I was about the DNC leaks.
Actually you can't. Under Trump's command...well, agencies don't quite work that way. And the intelligence community in particular has an ongoing feud going on with Trump. Outside of them it's quite clear that the civil service as a whole hates him rather heartily, the main exceptions being things like ICE. And for good reason, the GOP often rails against bureaucrats and Trump's chief strategists makes no secret of wanting to demolish the civil service.
Aside from that. Wikileaks is less a pro-Trump group than he is a useful idiot of interests including them (the reactionary wave) or interests controlling them (Russia as oft speculated). With that in mind, Wikileaks entire pattern of behavior doesn't go away, even if they had deliberately tried to damage Trump himself. Why would you suddenly trust someone who's sucker-punched you?

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:16:09 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178988: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:15:21 AM

Wikileaks releasing "damaging" information about the CIA while that agency is involved in a dispute with the Trump administration in no way contradicts anything that has been believed about its affiliations in the past.

Series, this is exactly the kind of ignorant crap that got you banned before. Want to go again?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#178989: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:17:08 AM

Series, do you really have some sort of goalpost moving fetish? Does it satisfy some primal urge of yours?

A conservative radio host and former GOP leader who claimed that only Democrats commit voter fraud has been charged with... exactly that. I kid you not.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:17:34 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#178990: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:17:24 AM

@Lightysnake: If Sanders rode them to power, why did the NRA give him an F rating (http://www.ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm)?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178991: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:18:45 AM

Because the NRA is an ideological organization first and foremost, which promotes arch-right wing, apocalyptic messaging in order to drive up gun sales. Sanders could have handed out AK-47s to every member of his constituency and they'd have given him a poor rating, because his social positions interfere with their message of white supremacy.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#178992: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:23:19 AM

Series, this is exactly the kind of ignorant crap that got you banned before. Want to go again?

I don't understand. I was banned for expressing a difference of opinion?

Series, do you really have some sort of goalpost moving fetish? Does it satisfy some primal urge of yours?

I don't know what you mean.

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#178993: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:24:29 AM

[up][up][up][up]Welp, I can check that off the Republican Lies bingo sheet. "Claims only Democrats commit voter fraud, then gets charged with voter fraud." Sweet, one more and I'll have a row and a column.

[up]I don't know, but you were most likely banned for either deliberately or ignorantly making claims that can easily be debunked with the slightest bit of serious research and are otherwise just contrarian or inflammatory.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:25:37 AM by danime91

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#178994: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:24:52 AM

Sanders also voted with the NRA several times. This is the sort of thing that would have the Sanders fans howling for blood of any 'establishment' Democrat. If, say, Wall Street helped Clinton get elected and she voted nay on Wall Street regulations (and Sanders has certainly voted against harsher measures on the gun industry) it would be utterly unacceptable to those giving him a pass.

And just imagine if any of them voted to dump waste on a poor Latino town in Texas and then refused to even meet with those who had concerns because he had an election to worry about.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:32:20 AM by Lightysnake

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178995: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:33:59 AM

[up] Not really. Sanders is fairly moderate on gun control, and that plays well with rural voters, his constituents included. Meanwhile Wall Street, and business leaders in general are reviled across that particular line in the post-Great Recession world.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:43:25 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#178996: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:34:21 AM

@danime: The way I remember it, I was the one posting my sources (research) for a lot of my claims and other people just ignored it or claimed it was biased without providing any evidence for that claim.

@lightysnake: He apparently didn't vote with the NRA very often if they gave him an F. I know someone earlier claimed that this had something to do with the NRA being a white supremacist organization, but they didn't cite a source and it seems unlikely given that the NRA is funded by gun companies ("Not only does it receive contributions from willing gun customers at the point of purchase, but gun manufacturers are major contributors to the NRA." http://www.factcheck.org/2013/01/do-assault-weapons-sales-pay-nra-salaries/) which want to sell guns to as many people as possible.

I agree with you about the waste-dumping, though. I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:52:42 AM by SeriesOfNumbers

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#178997: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:41:40 AM

[up][up] "plays well with (insert demographic here) voters" does not fly with these people for 'establishment' Dems and you know it.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178998: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:45:14 AM

[up] Well yes, of course. The strategic use of hypocrisy is a core part of the "political theater" part of politics. Point out your opponents flaws even* if you are guilty of the same, project your own failings on to them to the maximum extent possible, and never relent. That's the pragmatic way of "debating" in the political arena**. It's about 99% showmanship and spectacle. Truth, facts, and logic do not and will never matter when it comes to politics on a massive scale, because it's an inherently emotionally charged and tribal part of society.

* and in fact especially lest they get the first shot in and define the narrative before you do.

** By which I mean the public face of politics; what happens in the background is a lot less exciting but also a lot more cool headed.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:57:05 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#178999: Mar 22nd 2017 at 9:06:01 AM

As evidence of hypocrisy, I point to Tulsi Gabbard - she's a conservative democrat who loves her some Assad and other authoritarian nutbars

I've done google searches to try to find verification that she actually praised Assad, but I'm not seeing it. Could you show me what you mean? I don't mean times where she called his opponents terrorists (which, by the way, appears to be largely true) but times where she literally said that Assad was a good guy.

edited 22nd Mar '17 9:06:31 AM by SeriesOfNumbers

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#179000: Mar 22nd 2017 at 9:10:00 AM

She met with him, and then characterized his opponents as terrorists.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

That's essentially the same as praising him.

And other issues with her still stand.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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