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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#178851: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:24:23 PM

First of all the second link is a reddit comment, not the actual article.

Second of all, these "contributions" add up to less than $3,500. That's less than nothing as far as campaign money goes.

Oh really when?
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#178852: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:26:30 PM

And how many of those "contributions" were people who simply worked in the industry? You could be a liberal saint, but if you worked on Wall Street and made donations it would appear as if Wall Street was "influencing" your candidate of choice.

New Survey coming this weekend!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#178853: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:27:34 PM

@Dingo: Well, for Roe V Wade to be officially dismissed I think that someone would have to bring a case before the Supreme Court. I don't think the SC can just say "hey let's review this old decision" without any prompting.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178854: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:28:26 PM

Second of all, these "contributions" add up to less than $3,500. That's less than nothing as far as campaign money goes.

No, those are gifts not campaign money. Trips to Maui is not a campaign contribution.

I'm sure it's a lot bigger than that when it comes to campaign contribution.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#178855: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:31:55 PM

Also is there any proof that they're "buying" votes or that they're supporting those who already vote a certain way?

Oh really when?
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#178856: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:48:17 PM

I'd be the answer to that is no.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178857: Mar 21st 2017 at 5:58:40 PM

If you think it's okay for oil companies to reward a legislator with gifts for voting their way then I dunno what to tell you. And that's best case scenario.

They're still giving incentizes to politicians for voting for Big Oil interests

It’s impossible to know whether the higher gifts have caused oil-friendly Democrats to vote more often with oil interests, or the gifts came as a reward for the voting, or some other type of causal relationship. It’s not impossible to imagine legislators becoming more sympathetic to the oil industry’s arguments as they hear them in Maui or at a Ritz Carlton, without hearing from public health or environmental advocates in the same setting. Studies from other fields have shown that even the smallest gifts can make a big difference: one 2016 study found that “as little as one free meal from a drug company can influence which medicines doctors prescribe for Medicare patients.”

edited 21st Mar '17 6:01:29 PM by MadSkillz

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178858: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:08:13 PM

They donate to just about everyone, Republicans and Democrats. It's how the system works. Give some money, get a little consideration. You cannot turn that off without fundamentally changing the politics game. I really feel like these sorts of complaints betray a very basic misunderstanding of politics. A fatal one, too, if you can't realize it.

Politics is the art of influencing. That is the entire purpose. If you write your senator a check for $1,000, you are telling him that you expect him to represent your interests. He (or she), in turn, will undoubtedly give consideration to the people who donate the most money, because that's in his interests. If you don't like the game, well, you still need money to run for office.

C'est la vie. Que sera, sera. It is that is. Wishing won't make it go away, nor will yelling loudly. I'm not sure if this belief of yours is a form of willful blindness or an expression of a memetic, cultural blind spot, but you will never get what you want as long as you hold it.

No wonder I don't get along with Justice Democrats.

edited 21st Mar '17 6:12:23 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178859: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:12:55 PM

Well, for Roe V Wade to be officially dismissed I think that someone would have to bring a case before the Supreme Court. I don't think the SC can just say "hey let's review this old decision" without any prompting.
That's not as hard as it sounds. Any state can pass a law violating some minor part of the old "undue burden" standard, and the circuit courts could fast track the case to SCOTUS. Plus they don't have to overrule it, to make Roe meaningless. O'Connor watered Roe down while writing that she was upholding it.

[up][up]Alot of that can just be human nature, rather than greed. When sifting through her head fro prescriptions a doctor might just remember the rep who brought her lunch. (Not that this whole thing may not need regulation. I think John Oliver covered this issue in another form). In the same sense, companies with permanent representatives to legislatures get more listening time, just because they've got their guy outside the office every day. Organizations can sink money into that. That's why others must organize in turn.
No need to wait until, the law is passed saying legislators must be cloistered in monasteries and allowed only access to the mail carrier.

edited 21st Mar '17 6:16:00 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178860: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:15:55 PM

It's worth noting that companies can get in very serious trouble with the government for seeking to influence people in regulated industries. The company I work for is a medical device manufacturer, and we are constantly drilled in ethics and corruption laws and best practices, including the things you cannot do for healthcare providers. These include giving gifts, even trivial ones, that are not directly related to medical practice or patient education. That means no branded pens or coffee cups, for example. There are strict limits (and bans, in some cases) on dining and entertainment. Failure to abide by these rules can get companies disbarred from Medicare or Medicaid reimbursement, blacklisted from federal purchasing, fined, and worse.

Clearly, not everyone follows those rules, but the rules do exist.

edited 21st Mar '17 6:16:52 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178861: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:19:48 PM

[up] Same here. I work in a tech company, and while the regulations aren't nearly as strict, we are still forbidden from giving anything but cheap token gifts. Worth noting that I work in a different country, so the labor laws aren't the same as they are in the USA.

edited 21st Mar '17 6:21:04 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178862: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:21:03 PM

Politics is the art of influencing. That is the entire purpose. If you write your senator a check for $1,000, you are telling him that you expect him to represent your interests. He (or she), in turn, will undoubtedly give consideration to the people who donate the most money, because that's in his interests. If you don't like the game, well, you still need money to run for office.

C'est la vie. Que sera, sera. It is that is. Wishing won't make it go away, nor will yelling loudly. I'm not sure if this belief of yours is a form of willful blindness or an expression of a memetic, cultural blind spot, but you will never get what you want as long as you hold it. No wonder I don't get along with Justice Democrats.

Well that's the point. Change the ballgame. Mobilize don't sit back on the couch and justify it.

Reminds me of people who feel the same against opposition for Trump. C'est la vie. Que sera, sera.

But whatever, I'm just a grumpy leftist bear.

edited 21st Mar '17 6:23:19 PM by MadSkillz

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#178863: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:37:27 PM

Money in politics is EXTREMELY complex. Don't know why you're making the issue out to be "Get rid of the money, and soon after we get the corrupt politicians out.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178864: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:41:12 PM

And as long as the Republicans have no qualms about taking money from big corporations, this would be political suicide. It'd be equivalent of throwing your gun away right before a duel and trying to rush the other person with your bare hands.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#178865: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:55:48 PM

Worth noting that the state assemblyman that's first on that list of big oil money donations is a Democrat from an area of California that voted strongly in favor of Trump. Dunno what's supposed to be accomplished by hitting people like him except losing Democratic toe holds in conservative areas.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178866: Mar 21st 2017 at 6:58:22 PM

[up] These are the same idiots who want to primary fucking Joe Manchin in WV.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178867: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:09:29 PM

@Parable Well that doesn't make much sense, Parable. Republicans don't have some inherent love for Big Oil companies. This is California not Texas.

And if you're talking about Rudy Salas, he seems to have beaten his opponent by almost double.

edited 21st Mar '17 7:15:42 PM by MadSkillz

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178868: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:19:07 PM

Big Oil is, largely, opposed to environmental legislation to curb climate change via reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. The Republican Party, by official canon, shares this same belief. However, the oil industry also donates to Democrats to "keep lines of communication open" — in other words, to hedge their bets against Democratic wins. In general, one would expect them to support a Republican over a Democrat in any given race, and indeed my understanding of the historical pattern of campaign contributions bears that out.

That does not mean that a Democrat who takes 10 grand from an oil company is going to abandon the party's environmental interests at the drop of a hat. But you equally cannot simply write off the political interests of a major industry. They do have a right to have a say, you know. Just not a disproportionate say.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178869: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:25:45 PM

[up] Generally speaking, Republican voters only care about the environment when pollution starts affecting them in a big way. As in, "our water and air have become poisonous and an oil company is building a pipeline near our property."

It's kind of like why China has been starting to get on the renewable energy train. Pollution has gotten so bad that they have to deal with the problem.

edited 21st Mar '17 7:27:51 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#178870: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:43:12 PM

I wonder, has anyone tried to sell renewable energy as keeping America free from foreign control and imports to them yet?

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#178871: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:47:53 PM

Yes. They got "muh clean and competitive coal" and "drill baby drill" in response.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#178872: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:54:06 PM

I think there was an exceedingly short time where a few Republican congressmen did voice interest in some green energies during the Iraq war for that reason, but as Rational said, it almost instantly gave way to "Drill, baby, drill!"

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178873: Mar 21st 2017 at 7:59:48 PM

BTW, I wasn't exaggerating when I said China's pollution problems have gotten bad enough that they have no choice but to try going into renewables. Not too long ago, a huge fucking amount of air pollutants from China blew all the way to Taiwan forcing people in Taiwan to wear those face masks you see people with colds wear all the time for a few days.

If things have to get that bad in the USA for Republican voters to start taking environmental legislation seriously...

Disgusted, but not surprised
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#178874: Mar 21st 2017 at 8:10:39 PM

[up]They would probably tell Mexico and China to pay for it.

Continue writing our story of peace.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#178875: Mar 21st 2017 at 8:13:22 PM

I hate this smug prick so much. These morons are seriously going to fuck everything up.

edited 21st Mar '17 8:17:07 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!

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