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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178726: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:28:36 AM

[up] My own suspicion is that many centrist democrats will end up shifting their rhetoric to the left by 2018, as has been the case to an extent in my own state, with Schumer supporting Ellison for DNC chair and Cuomo going as far as to make a proposal to make tuition at the SUNY schools free for state residents. The impetus to actually go through will primary challenges will have mostly died down by then if such a shift does indeed occur, though there will undoubtedly be some obnoxious holdouts.

Moreover, when talking about the 2018 midterms, there's far more competitive governorships than there are Republican held senate seats up for grabs; and my expectations for 2018 are thus not particularly high on the federal level.

edited 20th Mar '17 9:31:51 AM by CaptainCapsase

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#178727: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:28:47 AM

Nevermind, we've moved on.

edited 20th Mar '17 9:29:25 AM by Robrecht

Angry gets shit done.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178728: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:31:52 AM

[up][up] As long as they don't try something asinine like attempt to primary Joe Manchin or something.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178729: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:36:59 AM

[up] Considering the nature of the democratic electorate in NV, if someone successfully primaries him that person might very well be as good if not better than him at selling the democrats' programs to a heavily Republican leaning audience. If we can go from someone who votes with the democrats 75% of the time to 85% of the time, that's an improvement.

edited 20th Mar '17 9:39:33 AM by CaptainCapsase

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#178730: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:41:54 AM

Once again...Feinstein and Carper are right there. There's a cost-benefit analysis to primarying people, just ask Richard Murdouck in Indiana.

Also, just one thing...I am fucking sick of hearing how Obama or Clinton would be 'conservative' in other systems. It's not true. At all. I don't care if Obama made one remark to demonstrate how nuts the Republicans were.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#178731: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:43:35 AM

Let's keep in mind that the Senate elections are happening after two years of 100% Republican government, supporting a historically unpopular Republican president. We have a lot of ground to defend, but politically, we have no policy to defend, and that's ultimately more important. I mean, we're defending 22 seats, but 12 of those are in the Northeast, 1 in California, and 2 in Washington, and there will be plenty to attack Trump over in 2018. And after all that, the number of pickups we need is just 3.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178732: Mar 20th 2017 at 9:58:03 AM

Also there's no reason to ignore the house of representatives, if we're talking federal level. That's a much more winnable battle than the senate.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#178733: Mar 20th 2017 at 10:04:56 AM

The House is also a better barometer re: the president's popularity. If we play our cards right as a party, going into 2018 with Trump's AR in the toilet could translate to a Republican implosion.

The key for the House is actually, to some extent, for bygones to be bygones — we can't turn away Democrats just because they're not urban progressives. Like, in Massachusetts, in the 8th District, which is basically stereotypical working-class Boston (including Southie), Somerville, and the South Shore, the Rep is Stephen Lynch, the son of an ironworker, an old school union lawyer and rep, and a shade more liberal than a Blue Dog, but he's basically the only conservative-ish guy in MA's delegation.

He's the target of a primary campaign by Brianna Wu, a feminist activist, video game developer, and noted target of GamerGate. Her only claim to fame is her cred with millennials in Cambridge and for being a CEO in a tech-related field, which admittedly is big in Massachusetts. But she's running in the 8th, a turf where she knows basically no one, doesn't understand the local culture, and doesn't live in the heart of that district. Lynch, let's be clear, is an oily motherfucker who voted against the ACA, and has had to have progressivism spoon-fed to him like a child over the years, but if he keeps those fucking rubes from voting Republican, he stays.

In conclusion, don't primary Democrats who are a natural fit with the local culture. And since we're all pretty much Democrat-leaning on this thread, I think going forward, it's our responsibility as Democrats to make sure we don't start riling for irresponsible primary campaigns.

edited 20th Mar '17 10:20:28 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178735: Mar 20th 2017 at 10:34:26 AM

[up][up]The Dems also have to remind the country that things will not magically get better and resting on laurels is a good way to be defeated in 2020, no matter what happens in 2018. The bar is much higher for Dems to deliver something. GOP voters will show up no matter what.

An aside: The Supreme Court—Round Two: Trump Supreme Court pick Neil Gorsuch faces Senate hearing Ding!

The Senate confirmation hearing of President Donald Trump's nominee for the US Supreme Court, Neil Gorsuch, is now under way.

Senate Judiciary Committee Democrats immediately highlighted abortion and employee rights as key issues.

The Democrats also repeated anger at Republicans for refusing to consider Barack Obama's Supreme Court nominee.

But it is unclear whether they will try to block Mr Gorsuch's confirmation.

The hearing began with addresses from the chairman, Republican Chuck Grassley, and ranking Democrat Dianne Feinstein.

Mr Grassley hailed Mr Gorsuch's "exceptional record", saying he had shown unfailing commitment to "the preservation of our constitutional order and the separation of powers".

But Ms Feinstein began by citing the Republicans' block on Mr Obama's nomination of federal appeals court judge Merrick Garland to replace Judge Scalia.

She said she was "deeply disappointed that it is under these circumstances that we begin this hearing".

Senate Republicans, including Lindsey Graham, pointed to a quote by then Judiciary Committee chairman, the Democrat Joe Biden, in 1992 saying then President George HW Bush should not name a nominee to any Supreme Court post until after the upcoming election.

"I don't think any injustice has been done," Mr Graham said.

One ruling by Neil Gorsuch that the Democrats seized on was the case of lorry driver Alphonse Maddin.

He was told to stay in his freezing vehicle for hours after it broke down. After he disobeyed the order he was fired. Judge Gorsuch gave a dissenting ruling on a three-judge panel, writing it was not up to judges to answer whether the employer's decision was "wise or kind".

Republican Senator John Cornyn praised Mr Gorsuch for following the law "where it leads, that's how the rule of law works", whether that meant rulings for employees or employers, or whether they were pro- or anti-government.

Democrat Senator Sheldon Whitehouse said he feared Mr Gorsuch's appointment could lead to another "Republican 5-4 special interest spree".

But Lindsey Graham, although pointing out his well-known opposition to Donald Trump's election campaign, said the president should be praised for picking the "best choice available".

Mr Gorsuch, a judge on the Denver-based 10th US Circuit Court of Appeals, will also be pressed on his role as a Department of Justice lawyer under former President George W Bush from 2005-06.

During that period Mr Gorsuch helped defend the administration's expansive use of aggressive interrogation techniques.

The Democrats' options on opposing Mr Gorsuch are limited.

Republicans control the Senate and they can change the chamber's rules to make it easier to confirm Mr Gorsuch if any attempt is made to block him.

A full Senate vote is expected on 3 April.

Well, there was one Warren Court, once upon a time...Maybe pieces of its writ will survive a few more decades of reactionary rulings.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#178737: Mar 20th 2017 at 10:49:14 AM

If we want an actual conservative party then I propose the centrist democrats and progressives split into two different parties after the Republicans are thrown into the fire.

Had more people turned out to vote for Hillary instead of sitting on their duffs crying about how the DNC personally assassinated Sanders's campaign every other week, that's precisely what could have happened. A crushing defeat of Trump and heavy reclaim of Washington could have flipped the political spectrum inside-out.

Instead, we're now faced with the threat of the opposite being true. The GOP has an incredible amount of power right now, to the point that remarks like "after the Republicans are thrown into the fire" just sound naive. There's no point planning ahead for after we beat them as if that's something we can just take for granted will happen.

Right now, we are the ones struggling for relevancy in an increasingly fascist world. The Justice Dems are preying on us in a moment of vulnerability. That's the same kind of parasitism that gave the Tea Party power, and the ultimate result of that behavior was Trump.

The last thing the Democrats need is a Trump of our very own.

One of us has to budge and your candidate snatched defeat from the jaws of victory against the Manchurian orange.

"Your candidate".

Funny thing, that. As Democrats, Hilary was our candidate. The candidate of the Democratic party. Part of the reason she lost? The number of "Democrats" who refuse to vote for Democratic candidates yet still insist that their voices should control the future of the party.

If Justice Dems want to have even an ounce of respect, the first step is to stop saying shit like "Your candidate." You can't exclude yourself from the party and then demand we hand over the reins.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#178738: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:00:35 AM

[up]Or demand that the establishment fall in line if they win primaries, while screaming that they'll abandon the party/suicide bomb humanity's collective future if their people don't win.

edited 20th Mar '17 11:04:37 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178739: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:13:15 AM

[up][up] One of the major issues with our two party system is that it forces people who have very, very different political ideologies to be part of the same party if they want any meaningful political agency. It's much easier to stomach a coalition with people you have many disagreements with than to share a political party, leaving pretty much everyone involved upset with internal party politics at all times. There's no prospect of addressing this problem however in the near future, so we'll have to find some way of sharing a party in spite of the differences.

edited 20th Mar '17 11:14:26 AM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#178740: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:19:20 AM

Of course, you need to move away from FPTP as well. Canada has multiple parties, but the system basically means that two major parties (the Liberals and the Conservatives) have a lot of factions within them (the right was never getting into power while the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform/Alliance party were competing) and this does lead to tension.

If the US had more than 2 parties....the winner would be the least divided side.

On the other hand, big tents usually (the GOP being a notable exception) tend towards moderate platforms and flexible pragmatism.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#178741: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:33:32 AM

Our Revolution is not the only thing out there you know. There are several groups dedicated to helping democrats regain seats in local and national congresses in swing districts, such as Flippable, Swing Left, and Sister District. They all played a major part in the delaware and Georgia 6th campaigns.

edited 20th Mar '17 11:34:03 AM by megaeliz

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#178742: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:35:14 AM

Well shit.

Comey pretty much just confirmed indirectly, that Wikileaks is an arm of the Russian government.

New Survey coming this weekend!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#178743: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:38:51 AM
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178744: Mar 20th 2017 at 11:47:34 AM

[up][up][up]The thing about those groups that makes them significantly more palatable is the fact that their priority is fighting the GOP, not primarying democrats.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178745: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:16:53 PM

Also, just one thing...I am fucking sick of hearing how Obama or Clinton would be 'conservative' in other systems. It's not true. At all. I don't care if Obama made one remark to demonstrate how nuts the Republicans were.

I mean it's not even in the other systems.

Obama and Clinton consider themselves fiscal conservative and Third Way Democrats which is a blend of left wing social policies and right wing economic policies.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#178746: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:20:16 PM

[up] Fiscal Conservatism, in certain situations, has its roots in reality, and left-wing economics, shocker, has certain stances that are basically voodoo pixie dust garbage.

Public Policy doesn't have a particular ideology. It operates on reality.

New Survey coming this weekend!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#178747: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:28:57 PM

I want to know what the your opinions on Wikileaks and the Vault 7 thing are. Especially in light of the "indirect arm of Russia" comment.

edited 20th Mar '17 12:29:31 PM by MorningStar1337

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#178748: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:37:43 PM

[up]"Open secrets selectively interpreted to make the American intelligence service look like Bond villains"?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#178749: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:42:32 PM

[up] I wouldn't be surprised if the true Bond villains in this case are Putin and his cronies.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#178750: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:43:34 PM

I really, really hope that the Democrats don't try and utterly blockade any Supreme Court nominee that gets proposed - it's a battle they can not win. The Republicans had the advantage of "It's an election year" (in spite of there being nearly a full calendar year until the new President would be sworn in) - the Democrats would have 4 years until a new Presidential election, and that would guarantee a loss due to overt obstructionism.

Blocking Gorsuch in particular is a fight they can win, though, so long as they prove reasonable should a more palatable candidate be proposed.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"

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