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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178651: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:18:00 PM

Those priorities are pretty much unspeakably awful and based on what's, at best, an extremely biased view of events. As for platforms, I've yet to hear them actually put one forward, rather than just screaming about the Dems being corrupt.

Here ya go.

PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO PUT AN END TO WASHINGTON CORRUPTION AND BRING ABOUT ELECTION REFORM.

Super PA Cs should be banned, private donations to politicians and campaigns should be banned, and a clean public financing system should be implemented to end the takeover of our government by corporations and billionaires. Americans deserve free and fair elections — free from the corruption of big money donors. The Supreme Court has effectively legalized bribery. It’s time for an Article 5 convention to take our Democracy back from the brink of Oligarchy. Prior to passing this amendment, all Justice Democrats should reject billionaire and corporate donations when running for office to show the American people we don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk. Ranked choice voting should also be implemented to make smaller parties a viable option. All provisions of the Voting Rights Act should be reinstated, and gerrymandering for partisan gain should be eliminated.

RE-REGULATE WALL STREET AND HOLD WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE.

Despite engaging in systemic fraud and causing a subprime mortgage meltdown and the great recession, you can count the people from Wall Street who are in prison for their crimes on one hand. It’s time to prosecute the criminals, bring back Glass-Steagall, and re-regulate Wall Street to prevent another crash. Prison is not just for the poor and the middle class anymore. We will have cops on Wall Street, not just Main Street.

END BILLIONAIRE AND CORPORATE TAX DODGING, FIX THE SYSTEM TO BENEFIT MIDDLE-CLASS AND POOR PEOPLE.

Corporations dodge $450 billion a year in taxes by using offshore tax havens. We should end this injustice, as well as chain the capital gains tax to the income tax, increase the estate tax, and implement the Buffet Rule so that no millionaire CEO pays less in taxes than his or her secretary. It’s time for a tax system that benefits the middle-class and the poor, and makes the top 1% and multinational corporations pay their fair share.

DEFEND FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION.

We support the right to express unpopular opinions without fear of censorship. We support free speech on college campuses. The marketplace of ideas should be embraced. A vibrant debate is healthy for democracy, and we should cherish our first amendment. We also support net neutrality for a free and open internet.

OPPOSE BIGOTRY.

We must speak out against racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all forms of bigotry. Non-discrimination protections that currently apply to race, religion, and gender should be expanded to include the LGBTQ community and the atheist community. Making all Americans equal is not asking for special privileges, it’s asking for the rule of law — justice and equality for all as outlined in the United States Constitution.

MAKE THE MINIMUM WAGE A LIVING WAGE AND TIE IT TO INFLATION.

This is about justice and basic human decency. If you work hard and you work full time you shouldn’t live in poverty. Furthermore, we support strong unions and collective bargaining.

ENSURE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE AS A RIGHT.

The United States should catch up to every other modern nation and implement a single-payer, medicare-for-all system. There’s no reason we can’t be #1 in the world instead of #37. It’s time to end the destruction of American healthcare by rapacious, price gouging, for-profit, private health insurance middlemen.

ENSURE UNIVERSAL EDUCATION AS A RIGHT.

Educating the citizenry of a nation pays dividends in the long run, with the economy getting back much more than is initially put in. Crushing student debt for higher education would no longer burden young men and women trying to improve their lives through hard work. We should strive to have the best education system in the world.

END UNNECESSARY WARS AND NATION BUILDING.

The United States maintains 800 military bases worldwide at a cost of $100 billion a year, this is money that can be spent at home creating jobs, rebuilding infrastructure, and investing in the future of the people. The disastrous war in Iraq cost trillions, the war in Afghanistan is 15 years in with no end in sight, and we’re currently bombing 7 different countries. We spend more on our military than the next 8 countries combined. Despite countless lives lost and destroyed, terrorism has only gotten worse. It’s time to end the wars and the perverse monetary-incentive structure that makes politicians flippant about sending young men and women to die. Unilateral U.S. military force should only be used as a last resort to defend the nation. The current budget could be cut drastically if we used our department of defense for what it was intended — defending us, instead of waging interventionist wars.

END THE FAILED WAR ON DRUGS.

The goal is legalization, taxation, and regulation. Prohibition only makes drug cartels more powerful, increases crime, and makes drugs more dangerous due to lack of enforced safety standards. What you put in your body is your own business, and your right. A free society should allow individuals to make their own choices about their bodies. While most users are recreational and moderate, rehabilitation and treatment should be provided for people struggling with addiction. Additionally, those serving time for non-violent drug offenses should be pardoned.

CREATE THE NEW NEW DEAL.

Our infrastructure gets a grade of D from the Society of Civil Engineers. The government should invest trillions in rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, schools, levees, airports etc. There’s no reason why we can’t have the world’s #1 infrastructure.

CREATE THE RENEWABLE ENERGY REVOLUTION.

Scientists are sounding the alarm on climate change. In order to avoid the worst case scenario and a dystopian future we need a massive green revolution. It’s time to drastically and immediately move away from fossil fuels and develop the technologies of the future. This will be a giant boon to both the private and public sector, as well as a necessary response to a global crisis. We can and we must be #1 in sustainable energy production in the world.

BLOCK BAD TRADE DEALS LIKE THE TPP AND OPPOSE OUTSOURCING THAT WILL FURTHER DAMAGE THE MIDDLE-CLASS.

As a result of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China and the WTO, Americans have lost millions of decent paying jobs. It’s time to end the race to the bottom and renegotiate these rigged deals that only benefit elites. We should not sacrifice our sovereignty, the only people who are allowed to make laws for the United States should be the American people, not multinational corporations.

END CONSTITUTIONAL OVERREACHES.

Ban the NSA from bulk data-collection and warrantless spying. Shut down Guantanamo Bay and all extrajudicial prisons. Prosecute torturers and those who violated the Geneva Conventions, Nuremberg Tribunal, International law and US law. Return habeas corpus and due process. Pardon whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. We shouldn’t be leading from behind on human rights, we must be the home of liberty. We should practice the values we preach.

NO LONGER SELL ARMS TO HUMAN-RIGHTS VIOLATORS.

Ban arming human rights violators. We recently gave Saudi Arabia billions in weapons and watched the civilian death toll in their vicious bombing campaign in Yemen tick up. We continue sending Egypt arms as they violently crack down on peaceful protesters. Israel received $38 billion in aid and promptly announced new settlements. The first step to peace is not enabling nations who regularly violate international law. We must be bold enough to stand up to human rights violators who aren’t just our enemies, but our allies. We don’t weaken our allies by holding them accountable, we strengthen them.

DEFEND AND PROTECT WOMEN’S RIGHTS.

We support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We oppose Republican cuts to Planned Parenthood and women’s health clinics all across the country. In 2016 alone, 60 TRAP laws targeting abortion were passed in 19 states. We will vigorously oppose all efforts to dismantle reproductive rights.

ENSURE PAID VACATION TIME, SICK TIME, FAMILY LEAVE, CHILDCARE.

The United States is one of just three countries in the world that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave, the others being Oman and Papua New Guinea. We are the only industrialized nation that doesn’t offer paid vacation time. This should be changed immediately.

PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE AND MEDICAID.

Republicans have been trying to privatize and cut earned benefit programs for decades. Corporate Democrats have been willing to go along with them under the guise of a ‘grand bargain’ and ‘reform’. We pledge to staunchly oppose this. Social Security reduced the elderly poverty rate from 35% to 10%. 3.4 million Americans would immediately fall into poverty without Medicaid. Gutting these vital programs is not an option.

IMPLEMENT COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM.

We won’t give an inch in our opposition to Trump’s outrageous proposals. Ideas like a ‘total and complete’ shutdown of Muslim immigration and deporting all undocumented immigrants are anathema to America. We will fight for comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship. America is a proud nation of immigrants.

ENACT POLICE REFORM.

We believe in the core idea of policing — to serve and protect the community. Police are a vital part of American society and that is why it’s so important to reform the system to make it serve all Americans. For-profit policing and for-profit prisons should be abolished. Police training should be retooled to emphasize deescalation tactics, and body cameras should be mandatory on all officers. Furthermore, community oversight boards should be created and broken windows policing should be eliminated. Stop & frisk — which disproportionately targets blacks and latinos 87% of the time — has a 97% failure rate. On top of being discriminatory and ineffective, it’s also unconstitutional and should be ended. Special prosecutors must also be appointed to hold police accountable.

COMBAT HOMELESSNESS.

More than 600,000 Americans are homeless on any given night, including over 57,000 veterans. Studies show the cost of leaving a homeless person on the streets is $30,000 while the cost of housing them is just $10,000. Addressing this crisis is both the moral and fiscally responsible thing to do.

ENACT COMMON-SENSE GUN REGULATION.

92% of Americans want expanded background checks, 54% want a ban on assault weapons, and 54% want a ban on high capacity magazines. We agree with the majority of the American people and support these measures. Over 30,000 Americans die every year from gun violence, including over 10,000 homicides. The time to act is now to address this public health crisis.

ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY.

Humans are fallible, we’ll never get the right answer 100% of the time. 4% of the people on death row are not guilty of a crime and have been wrongly convicted. A system that puts innocent people to death is indefensible and should be reformed. We want justice for the American people but killing innocent people on death row is the exact opposite.

THESE IDEAS REPRESENT WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT ALL ALONG.

Opinion polls in the United States demonstrate that these policy positions are overwhelmingly popular. Indeed, throughout the industrialized world these ideas are considered moderate. This is a movement about freedom and justice. And it’s a movement by and for working people. If the Democrats refuse to embrace this platform, they’ll continue to lose, either to Republicans or to us. The future of the Democratic party is the Justice wing, not the establishment wing.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:18:19 PM by MadSkillz

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178652: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:20:37 PM

Yeah, Obama's not a conservative either. He's at worst a centrist. And you're frankly spewing some gobbledygook with that 'conversative who's the left on social issues' stuff.

The US doesn't actually have mainstream conservatives at the moment. They have a centre-left party and a lunatic party. People like Manchin and McCain are the closest there is to actual conservatism ATM.

@The platform: Skimming it because that's way too much text for me to read in detail at 2:30 AM; that looks pretty much identical to the mainstream Dem platform, except for the parts that are impractical, naive, and/or awful.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:25:12 PM by Gilphon

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178653: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:26:24 PM

Yeah, Obama's not a conservative either. He's at worst a centrist. And you're frankly spewing some gobbledygook with that 'conversative who's the left on social issues' stuff.

Obama literally said he'd be a Republican under Reagan.

Conservatism isn't just social issues. There's economic policies to consider too.

The US doesn't actually have mainstream conservatives at the moment. They have a centre-left party and a lunatic party.

That's not really true. The Democrat Party isn't a center left party. It's a fusion of the center-left and the center-right.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178654: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:29:42 PM

[up][up] It is pretty similar, except the Justice Democrats' platform has a lot more "EVIL ESTABLISHMENT CORPORATE DEMOCRATS" crap in it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178655: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:29:53 PM

[up][up]That is not what they are- they are a fusion of far-left, true left, moderate left, centrism, and moderate right. Which averages out to centre-left.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:30:12 PM by Gilphon

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178656: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:33:48 PM

Skimming it because that's way too much text for me to read in detail at 2:30 AM; that looks pretty much identical to the mainstream Dem platform, except for the parts that are impractical, naive, and/or awful.

Well I can't really argue which is what you consider identical, awful, naive or impractical.

And well, they're Democrats still not Communists. They should share some similarities and when it comes to a lot of social issues, mainstream Democrats can be on point.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#178657: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:35:40 PM

[up][up]I think it would be helpful if you would define and differentiate "far," "true," and "moderate" left. Because I'm not really seeing how big-tent parties necessarily "average" out when each of its components possess different levels of influence.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178658: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:39:51 PM

That is not what they are- they are a fusion of far-left, true left, moderate left, centrism, and moderate right. Which averages out to centre-left.

I mean a far left Democrat would be a straight up communist. I don't think those exist in the Democrat Party.

Can you name a true left Democrat? Because for the life of me, I can't think of anyone. I mean a true left Democrat would be poison to the Establishment.

I think the leftmost Democrat that I can think of is Sanders because he's a Socialist that utilized a social democrat platform to run as a Democrat.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:40:18 PM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178659: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:41:44 PM

[up] Probably shouldn't call Sanders a Democrat until he registers as one again.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#178660: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:42:57 PM

Never mind the (((Establishment))), I'd like to see the odds of someone like that winning office outside of a blue state.

It certainly warms my heart that the Malaysian opposition isn't the only one with a double icon worship and plan execution problem.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#178661: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:43:28 PM

Perhaps it would be a good idea to lay out what we mean by far left, left, center-left, center, center-right, right, and far right, at least as it pertains to American politics.

Because I'm getting the impression that not everyone agrees on what each of them mean, (although that might just be me).

edited 19th Mar '17 11:43:49 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178662: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:45:34 PM

Well I can't really argue which is what you consider identical, awful, naive or impractical. And well, they're Democrats still not Communists. They should share some similarities and when it comes to a lot of social issues, mainstream Democrats can be on point.
They need big differences to justify to focusing their energy on trying to pull a takeover of the Dems and in the process openly encouraging the exact kind of infighting we need to avoid if we want to get rid of the lunatic party, when they could just as easily be spending that energy fighting the lunatic party directly.

If your house is on fire, and it's reasonable to argue if you disagree about the way you should put that fire out, but saying fire fighting can wait until after you've won the argument about what colour the wallpaper should be is insane and dangerous.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:47:04 PM by Gilphon

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#178663: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:46:53 PM

[up][up]Of course, part of the problem is that party affiliation is overlaid on top of political alignment.

There was a time still in living memory when there were not only moderate Republicans, but liberal ones as well (not to mention Southern Democrats). But the conservative movement of the 60s and 70s put an end to that, leading us to the ascendant Randroids we have today.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:48:57 PM by Eschaton

Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#178664: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:51:06 PM

[up][up][up] Nope, not just you. Recent events have made me certain that a lot of people and even the politicians know jack squat about the definition of the political terms that they spoke of or even supported. I mean when even the conservatives don't know what conservatism or what being a conservative is, things have gone terribly wrong here. Or we could be just currently live in one of those times of transition when the definition of terms change and our dictionaries and encyclopedias need to be updated.

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178665: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:54:57 PM

Left-wing = supportive of social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality. It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism), as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice).

Right-wing = the idea that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically defending this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system

The further left or right you go, the farther you're willing to go to enact your ideas. The horse shoe theory states that both those extremes leads to dictatorship.

Capitalism by its very nature is a right wing ideology because there has to be winners and losers for it to work the way it is intended to. If you want to be free then be rich and own capital. If you can't then spend your life trying to pursue that dream. Welfare capitalism is basically soft-capitalism intended to soften the brutality behind unininhibited capitalism by making the system tolerable.

edited 19th Mar '17 11:57:30 PM by MadSkillz

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#178666: Mar 19th 2017 at 11:58:25 PM

Thanks, but I was kind of hoping we could go a little deeper than that - like how things work out all the way down the spectrum.

Oh God! Natural light!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178667: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:05:56 AM

They need big differences to justify to focusing their energy on trying to pull a takeover of the Dems

Well they have some.

Namely Universal College education for everyone, taking money out of politics, no more TPP-like trade agreements, no more nation-building, cutting money from the military, tying minimum wage to inflation, end the War on Drugs, recreating the New Deal and no more selling weapons to countries that violate human rights.

and in the process openly encouraging the exact kind of infighting we need to avoid if we want to get rid of the lunatic party, when they could just as easily be spending that energy fighting the lunatic party directly. If your house is on fire, and it's reasonable to argue if you disagree about the way you should put that fire out, but saying fire fighting can wait until after you've won the argument about what colour the wallpaper should be is insane and dangerous.

But again, they think that if the mainstream Democrats pick who they want again to lead the nation, they'll end up with another loser that'll lose to Trump. Also they think their candidates can generate more popular support than the centrists.

I mean personally I think they should play it smarter and primary Democrats in blue states and leave the red states to the centrists.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178668: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:15:09 AM

Yeah, see, those all either fall into the 'impractical/naive/awful' category or the 'basically the same the mainstream dems' category. As platforms go, it's pretty much strictly inferior to the mainstream Dems' platform from where I'm standing.

I'm also deeply sceptical of the idea that centrist and right-leaning voters like far-left candidates more than centrist candidates, and hold that anyone who claims to be a left voter but isn't willing to vote for a centrist over a lunatic is someone the party's better off not pandering to.

But that's beside the point- the point being that the main way I see the Dems losing in 2020 is if they fail to unite behind whatever candidate is chosen. Therefore, I hold that attempts to divide the party should be resisted on principle.

edited 20th Mar '17 12:22:23 AM by Gilphon

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178669: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:20:03 AM

[up] It's the mainstream Democratic Party Platform, but with a dash of populism added to it. And I don't think that's a good thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178670: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:22:42 AM

Thanks, but I was kind of hoping we could go a little deeper than that - like how things work out all the way down the spectrum.

I mean okay going off the definitions I provided you there's three overarching issues to consider.

1. Foreign policy:

- Imperialism = right-wing

-Anti-imperialism= left wing

Vladimir Lenin wrote a book on how imperialism is the highest form of capitalism because the idea behind it is controlling a nation to squeeze out as much profits of if it as possible for the capitalists.

True communists would be anti-imperial.

2.Social issues

I think this one's pretty self explanatory. A caste system would be right wing and social is left wing.

3.Economic policy

This one's complicated because there are so many ways to tackle it and even a center-left economic policy would be different from a moderate left economic policy.

Third Way Democrats like Obama and Clinton are center-right on economics. They're fiscal conservatives.

Somwhenever I'm calling out neoliberals, I don't just mean Democrats. I'm calling out any politician who is right on economic issues and doesn't fight corporate corruption.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178671: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:36:05 AM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178674: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:50:08 AM

I'll get to the Justice Democrat success stories in a second, but I just want to point out that

1. Foreign policy:

- Imperialism = right-wing

-Anti-imperialism= left wing

Is not how foreign policy works, left wing imperialism is a thing and right wing isolationism is a thing. Likewise the kind fo isolationism pursued can vary greatly, from a strict neutrality approach to a war profiteering "let the brown ones die, fuck if I care" approach, the same way globalism can vary from direct imperialism to helping small countries fight against imperialism both from outside and from within.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178675: Mar 20th 2017 at 12:57:40 AM

One of us has to budge and your candidate snatched defeat from the jaws of victory against the Manchurian orange.

Oy, no she didn't. What happened was that the FBI intervened at the last moment to stop Trump from snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. This was an election season that favoured the GOP from the start; it was only as competitive as it was because Trump was such a shitty candidate.

And no, we're not advocating for the same thing. You're advocating for a group that's main mission statement is conflict amongst the Dems at every possible opportunity. I'm arguing that conflict amongst the Dems is the worst thing we could be doing, and therefore said group is being extremely shitty. It's not that I'd argue against supporting a Justice Democrat who won a primary- it's not my or highway by any means; that's utterly misreading me- it's that I feel that mounting said primary challenges is at best irresponsible and at worst handing the GOP a bunch of easy wins in places they had no business challenging.

edited 20th Mar '17 1:09:44 AM by Gilphon


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