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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178501: Mar 18th 2017 at 4:58:17 PM

@3of4: The US was headed for a crisis regardless of who won, that much has been clear for a while. That's less an indictment of Clinton personally though than it is of American policymakers in general.

edited 18th Mar '17 5:03:27 PM by CaptainCapsase

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#178502: Mar 18th 2017 at 6:03:15 PM

Speaking of which, I am curious about your opinions on the former organization.
The EFF is good stuff. They're a textbook case for why not all lobbying groups are universally evilbadwrong. For those not familiar with them, they're a nonprofit group that deals with the intersection of law and technology. They do things like involve themselves in the courts (filing lawsuits, defending cases, or sending amicus briefs), the legislature (commenting on bills, lobbying for or against things as appropriate) and the executive (acting as a watchdog group for things like government surveillance and privacy issues). They're basically always on the side of personal rights and fair use. If the EFF supports something (or opposes it), then it's almost certainly for a good reason.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178503: Mar 18th 2017 at 6:08:49 PM

[up]It's like the old Congressional Office of Technology Assessment?

[down]Who's "the Dude?"

edited 18th Mar '17 7:19:46 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#178504: Mar 18th 2017 at 7:09:19 PM

Why are we actually wasting our time when the guy unironically quoted The Dude as a retort? For millennials, that's the definitive "Not listening, LALALA" statement.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#178505: Mar 18th 2017 at 7:20:16 PM

That's just, like, your opinion, man. Maybe if the Dems put forth a candidate worth voting for...

Question: If you told a company "I've never bought your product before and I probably won't in the future, but if you ignore the millions of people buying your product as it is right now and change your product so it's exactly what I want, I might consider doing so" would you expect them to listen and do what you want?

If the answer is no, why would you expect a political party to do any different?

Regardless of whether you vote or not, things are going to be happening that affect not just you, but people all across the world. The only way not to be part of the problem is to mitigate the potential harm that could be done and to work to improve things. Otherwise, whether you're actively voting for the "greater evil" or just giving more power to the plutocrats, theocrats, and fascists by not opposing them, you're part of the problem.

[up][up] Main character of the movie The Big Lebowski. Classical Anti-Hero slacker who inadvertently gets caught up in the schemes of the people around him. The "That's, like, just your opinion man" line is a quote from the film.

edited 18th Mar '17 7:22:24 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178506: Mar 18th 2017 at 7:35:31 PM

While that's true, it's ignoring the more important point that Hillary isn't corrupt.

It wasn't a choice between a greater evil and lesser evil, it was a choice between 'good, but not perfect' and 'worse than all but the very worst comic book villains'.

edited 18th Mar '17 7:35:41 PM by Gilphon

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#178507: Mar 18th 2017 at 7:56:19 PM

[up][up][up][up] A character from The Big Lebowski

[up] Hence my use of "real or imagined" when bringing up Clinton's corruption scandals.

edited 18th Mar '17 7:57:33 PM by sgamer82

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178508: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:04:33 PM

@Markvon Lewis:

If it comes down to it, I'm not gonna vote for ANY evil, greater or lesser.

I'm just gonna' leave this here:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

edited 18th Mar '17 8:05:15 PM by kkhohoho

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#178509: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:17:49 PM

We still have goofballs talking about Hillary's unproven corruption after three months of concrete proof of Trump's evil? "Corruption" is a word bandied so often we've forgotten what it looks like.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178510: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:32:31 PM

@ kkhohoho

Before we got sidetracked by yet another "BUT HILLARY", you mentioned that the Wall would just lead to a boom in Mexico's ladder industry. I have to object to that.

Cartels would simply use catapults (seriously), tunnels, or take advantage of the Coast Guard getting its budget slashed and use more boats. Or they will go with the classic "bribe the underpaid people manning the wall".

As someone of Chinese ancestry, I can attest that a big honking border wall vanity project isn't all that effective at keeping out people who really, really, want in.

edited 18th Mar '17 8:35:09 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#178511: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:35:22 PM

Speaking of precedent. How did the Berlin Wall fare against immigrants before Germany's reunification?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#178512: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:37:17 PM

That type of vanity project seems to be a thing with tyrannical, despotic governments. The military dictatorship in Brazil did the exact same thing in an effort to make themselves look big and impressive and inspire "patriotism" among the people.

Spoiler: they were all horrendoulsy mismanaged and most of them weren't even finished, eating up a bunch of money and time for no real reason.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#178513: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:38:03 PM

The wall itself wasn't the issue so much as the fact that crossing it was seen as an act of treason/marks you a hostile foreign infiltrator.

Oh really when?
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#178514: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:40:49 PM

[up][up][up] What immigrants? People wanted OUT of the GDR and the wall only covered Berlin, so it's a whole lot different than the Great Wall of China or Trump's pipe dream.

Because it "only" had to cover a comparatively small area it was more effective in achieving the regime's goal - keeping its citizens in East Berlin - than other walls. Didn't stop people from trying, though. I'd suggest looking up some of the escapes and escape attempts. People got really creative to get out of there.

edited 18th Mar '17 8:42:35 PM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Boston Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#178515: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:46:13 PM

Hasn't it already been established that most illegal immigrants in America are people who have overstayed their visas, rather than crossed illegally?

I seem to recall at one point that he actually said (paraphrasing here) "They told me we didn't really need a wall, but I said 'I wanna build a wall!' " Which to me says that he should pay for it, not the American public. Let him waste $20 billion that way.....

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178516: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:46:31 PM

[up]x6 Oh, I said nothing of the sort. I have no illusions of the ladder industry suddenly seeing a boom practically overnight, and most people would probably use the methods you've described. But you can bet that there would be at least one crazy yahoo (or group of yahoos,) who would be ready and willing to match Trump at his own game for one reason or another. Not even necessarily just to transport drugs, but more just to give him one big Fuck You.

edited 18th Mar '17 8:47:10 PM by kkhohoho

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#178517: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:50:20 PM

That plus, the wall would be a powerful symbol.

  • To future generations and many of us, of stupidity, xenophobia, and ineffectual malice.
  • To our Mexican neighbors, a daily slap in the face. (Seriously, it was worse to hear that the average Mexican reaction to Trump's rise was genuine hurt and not outrage/collective middle fingers/ something less gut punchy).
  • To cosmic irony, the ultimate vanity project/bridge to nowhere built to the cheers of the party of fiscal responsibility
  • To Texas, a source of frequent complaints for cutting off property and impeding border traffic to their businesses (Go figure...)
  • To all of us, a visible manifestation of an open wound and probably a trophy that can enjoyed equally by extremists of all stripes, both foreign and domestic
  • To all of us, N numbers of schools, healthcare subsidies, etc ad infinitum that weren't made.
  • and so on

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178518: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:55:46 PM

[up][up] That would be a sight, wouldn't it. Imagine the reaction if Trump woke up the day after his beloved wall was finished (somehow) to see that ladders had been propped up against the entire length of it overnight.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178519: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:56:40 PM

It's worth noting that in the past giant border walls have generally gone hand in hand with closed borders, that's another absurdity of the wall, Trump isn't planning to close the border with Mexico as part of building it.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#178521: Mar 18th 2017 at 8:59:53 PM

[up][up][up][up] It's a shame that even if the Senate goes Blue in 2018, the Democrats won't have a Super Majority that could over-ride a President's Veto. If the Republicans do finance the stupid wall, it won't be until 2020 that they could end the construction and financing of the thing, and by then it will be mostly there, and it would cost just as much to tear it down.

[up] This, I feel, will sadly be the fate of a lot of Government Agencies and Programs, at least under the Trump administration: They're going to have to be funded by the Public directly instead of through the Government. Maybe someone could make a website that is similar to Patreon, but for Government Agencies? Call it "Charity.org" or something.

edited 18th Mar '17 9:02:24 PM by DingoWalley1

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178522: Mar 18th 2017 at 9:01:00 PM

"Mr. Trump, tear down this wall!"

Ah, irony.

edited 18th Mar '17 9:01:12 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#178523: Mar 18th 2017 at 9:06:21 PM

[up] If somehow whoever ends up succeeding Putin ends up being comparatively liberal leaning (as implausible as that is), maximum irony would be achieved.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#178525: Mar 18th 2017 at 9:13:43 PM

RE: "Hillary's corrupt"

Prove it, or can it. C'mon, provide a link so we can all read from the entirely trustworthy sources that have demonstrated to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Clinton was corrupt and therefore not worth voting for over Trump.


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